Strange Diplomacy Issue?

[repentance7]

INFO:
I have all the expansions.
I have all the DLC's.
I'm playing single-player with no modified game stats (such as random personalities, etc.).
Difficulty is the one level harder than Prince.

So I'm playing Greece and I've met a couple city states and Babylon (among various other civs). After accumulating quite a hefty sum of gold, I decide to throw my influence around with two city states in particular, Zurich and Jerusalem who are the closest to me. At this point Babylon has not claimed them as "his own" yet. A couple turns later...he demands a tribute from Zurich and mocks me saying that he doesn't believe I'm in any position to defend it. Well ofc I choose the "you'll pay in time" selection. Then he starts denouncing me and stuff...all while I have a superior military than he does (I know this because I have the biggest army according to the demographics chart lol). Then he demands a tribute from Jerusalem and mocks me further. I would declare war on Babylon at this point because he is being a total jackass, if not for my economically beneficial trading relationship with Spain (which, to my knowledge, doesn't like warmongers). So this lasts a couple more turns until Babylon decides to settle a damn city RIGHT where my settler was headed halfway across the continent from where his empire is located; like two more turns and I would've made it. Well this is clearly a provocation so I declare war on the SOB. After I capture two of his non-capital cities as puppets, I make peace with him...then literally every single other civ on the map starts denouncing and hating me. Is this normal? Babylon has been provoking me for well over a millennia of in-game time, and when I go to war with him to get him back, everybody else suddenly hates me for doing it?

TL;DR I go to war with Babylon because he provoked me and now everyone hates me.

 

[TeriXeri]

I noticed declaring war will really upset other civs who hate/dislike warmongers, even without taking cities.

In my current game as songhai (small contintents/large/emperor) I took out 1 city/civ (venice, on my 4 civ continent.

Germany and England got really crazy about it and DoWed me back after a while.

Also cause they seem to want my land cause I built like 5 cities.

While on another continent, civs I met later first had earlywarmonger concerns but they seemed to have dropped it and want friendship all of a sudden.

Some civs seem to be bothered till the end of time, others don't seem to care unless you do severe warmongering (claiming you send the world into a dark age/global threat etc. , and others seem even almost immune to warmonger. diplo.

It's also dependant on if you have met most civs or not, undiscovered civs seem to not care before you discover em.

 

[Mustakrakish]

If you have superior army, you can try a war of attrition. Suffer minor diplo penalty for declaring, obliterate his troops he has to throw on you, but do not take a city, instead position the superior army comfortably just outside his city and clean up anything that moves into killzone. At one point if your army (numbers) is superior and you have enough troops positioned to take the city should you want to, he will bend and offer you a city or two in peace treaty - zero penalty. Well except for declaring. If you'd manage to get him to attack, then zero penalty.

 

[mclericp]

the irony:

Civs who hate ppl waring, DOW u later as revenge

Talk about 'peace-loving civs' am i right gandhi

 

[GKShaman]

I dont DOW alot but when I do - I make sure to denounce first, see how other civs feel/ if I can bribe them to attack or if they will bribe me. If no one hates them and its just me I might reconsider. But my recommendation is to check the diplomatic scene first.

 

[Damien10]

Guys I have basically upset every civ in my game. 18/19 of the civs are 'guarded' and only one (Egypt) are friendly. Have I messed up?

 

[chazzycat]

there is no justification for capturing cities in the AI's mind. It doesn't matter what the reasons were for the war starting - when you capture a city there is always a warmonger penalty. You want to hover over the cities with your mouse before you attack them - if it says MAJOR warmonger that means everyone is going to hate you. Or, at least the civs that are predisposed to hating warmongers.

 

[repentance7]

I dont DOW alot but when I do - I make sure to denounce first, see how other civs feel/ if I can bribe them to attack or if they will bribe me. If no one hates them and its just me I might reconsider. But my recommendation is to check the diplomatic scene first.

When I checked the diplomatic scene, all the civs I've discovered were friendly towards me, so I thought "meh I'm willing to suffer a concern about warmongering to get this mofo Babylon back" but as soon as I captured two cities ALL of they hated me. Literally everything was negative red when I mouse over our diplomatic relations. =\ I also did not know about the mousing over cities to see if they would trigger warmongering threat lol

 

[phillipwyllie]

Guys I have basically upset every civ in my game. 18/19 of the civs are 'guarded' and only one (Egypt) are friendly. Have I messed up?

Yes. Before you DOW you must get allies, especially you're trading partners. Even a single DOW nets you a warmonger score(albeit small), which translates into warmonger hate. Babylon has it in for you and has successfully isolated you from your friends, had you waited then things would have been different. Denouncements lasts for at least 30 turns, so even if you don't have allies immediately in time you would(AI civs that are acting jerky usually piss off the other AI civs).
It is possible to turn things around, however but you need to liberate cities whilst not taking any by force. Try the war of attrition method suggest earlier and gift any cities offered in peace to your next hated civ. Capture those and liberate. Any Cs that have been captured liberate those. If you can mange it that you can recall a civ to life then all is forgiven in their eyes(mostly). If you get the call to DOW someone else consider saying 'yes' as sometimes fighting a common foe can make that AI civ forgive you, just make sure you can get allies. Remember that weak civs get picked on by the AI.


In my last game it played out that a domination victory was the way to go after Shaka plonked a city right in my face. Several Capitals later I had recalled Shaka and Assyria to life. Even though they once hated me they now loved me(especially as the dutch kept on wiping them out and I kept recalling them to life).