Strategic Leader Trait

[Silence101]

With the talk of modding leader traits that's been popping up, I've been doing some experiementing on paper and I was thinking about adding a 12th trait to the XML called "strategic". Here's the breakdown that I have in mind:

Strategic -
+25% Espionage
+100% Intel Agency production bonus
Free commando promotion for Melee, Gun, Mounted, Armor units

I'm looking for feedback on how well you think this would balanced. My main concern is with the free commando promotion - do you believe that this is overpowered? (Or conversely, underpowered?) Would you use a leader with this trait?

 

[Giaur]

My proposal is:
0.5 espionage per population point. 40 population gives 20 espionage points (these points can be affected by buildings (jail, IA).
double production of security bureau (in my proposal double production of IA would be little overpowered)
commando requires Combat3 and does not need military science

Free commando perhaps is not overpowered, but you will get bored pretty soon.

btw. this staff should go to subforum: Ideas&Suggestions in General Disscusions. But watch out - there are plenty morons out there

 

[Leveler]

Free commando promotion would be ridiculous overpowered. That's why it requires four other promotions (Combat I,II,III,IV) before you can pick it.

 

[DigitalBoy]

With the talk of modding leader traits that's been popping up, I've been doing some experiementing on paper and I was thinking about adding a 12th trait to the XML called "strategic". Here's the breakdown that I have in mind:

Strategic -
+25% Espionage
+100% Intel Agency production bonus
Free commando promotion for Melee, Gun, Mounted, Armor units

I'm looking for feedback on how well you think this would balanced. My main concern is with the free commando promotion - do you believe that this is overpowered? (Or conversely, underpowered?) Would you use a leader with this trait?

Interesting idea, but I'm not sure how useful an espionage themed trait would be. My big gripe with the espionage system is how few spy specialists you can run prior to Constiution. Maybe your trait could add extra spy specialist slots or add spy specialist slots to already existing buildings.

And the free commando promotion is both out of flavor and ridiculously overpowering.

 

[Silence101]

My proposal is:
0.5 espionage per population point. 40 population gives 20 espionage points (these points can be affected by buildings (jail, IA).
double production of security bureau (in my proposal double production of IA would be little overpowered)
commando requires Combat3 and does not need military science

Free commando perhaps is not overpowered, but you will get bored pretty soon.

btw. this staff should go to subforum: Ideas&Suggestions in General Disscusions. But watch out - there are plenty morons out there

Yeah, I didn't post this in the best place - sorry everyone.

Giaur, your ideas are fine but I think they're a little beyond the scope of what I can do with an XML mod. I modded the other traits as well (gave PRO a bonus to the Security Bureau) and so I don't want to double it up with the Strategic trait.

Interesting idea, but I'm not sure how useful an espionage themed trait would be. My big gripe with the espionage system is how few spy specialists you can run prior to Constiution. Maybe your trait could add extra spy specialist slots or add spy specialist slots to already existing buildings.

And the free commando promotion is both out of flavor and ridiculously overpowering.

My goal wasn't to create a espionage themed trait. When I think of strategy, I think of reading between the lines to find hidden advantages. I think Hannibal would be an awesome candidate for what I have in mind. When it comes to strategy, espionage is a piece of that, but I don't want it to be defined by espionage alone.

However, as I thought about it, after discovering engineering, a strategic leader's mounted units could move 9 spaces over the AI's wonderfully road spammed territory striking distant cities that are likely not well protected... I'm leaning on the side of it being OP as well.

However, I still want the trait to give some sort of battle advantage outside of the traditional strength/experience modifiers given by the other traits. What do you think of a free mobility promotion instead... for Melee / Gun / Mounted / Armor units? Thanks to everyone for your feedback.

EDIT: Oops - I meant free Morale promotion - not mobility.

 

[Antilogic]

Perhaps you could borrow an idea from Rhye's mod and give them a bonus similar to the Roman ability, which increases movement along roads in your territory.

To build up an early amount of espionage points, you could always assign a flat "espionage point per city" in the same vein as the Creative trait gives culture, which would build up a supply of points for use over time.

 

[troytheface]

great idea if you ask me.

part of me misses the simplicity of civ3's "seafaring" or "scientific" ect.

 

[GoodGame]

Intrigue would be a better name for such a trait.

Strategic thematically would get benefits in making like ICBM's, forts, castles, barracks, in my humble opinion.

Commando for military units is a humongous boon in itself, especially if you give it free to mounted/armor units. Thematically it fits, but I imagine it is very unbalancing.

With the talk of modding leader traits that's been popping up, I've been doing some experiementing on paper and I was thinking about adding a 12th trait to the XML called "strategic". Here's the breakdown that I have in mind:

Strategic -
+25% Espionage
+100% Intel Agency production bonus
Free commando promotion for Melee, Gun, Mounted, Armor units

I'm looking for feedback on how well you think this would balanced. My main concern is with the free commando promotion - do you believe that this is overpowered? (Or conversely, underpowered?) Would you use a leader with this trait?

 

[Antilogic]

great idea if you ask me.

part of me misses the simplicity of civ3's "seafaring" or "scientific" ect.

I think those traits more described a civilization's character as a whole, rather than specific leaders. Since the advent of multiple leaders per Civ, the traits have become more "personality" oriented than "culture" oriented. I think that is one of the primary reasons why the "Seafaring" trait hasn't been revived.

Now that I've gotten use to it, I love the greater variety in Civ4's traits over Civ3's.

 

[AfterShafter]

Between Aggressive, and Protective, and as half/half traits charismatic and imperialistic, I think the game has enough military oriented traits. I'd prefer Financial be fiddled with to deal with finances alone, and an "Academic" trait be added that boosts science. Kill two birds with one stone - deal with the "most powerful" trait that lends itself to a cookie cutter playstyle (financial) and add another trait along with it.

 

[Silence101]

Between Aggressive, and Protective, and as half/half traits aggressive and imperialistic, I think the game has enough military oriented traits. I'd prefer Financial be fiddled with to deal with finances alone, and an "Academic" trait be added that boosts science. Kill two birds with one stone - deal with the "most powerful" trait that lends itself to a cookie cutter playstyle (financial) and add another trait along with it.

It's funny you say that - I actually went back and modded all of the traits including FIN. I had some pretty wild ideas, but that's another story.

One thing I've been really focusing on lately is trying to give the various leaders the most historically accurate set of traits without duplicating any trait combo. Often a problem that I run into is that a given trait combo would be perfect for several leaders... so it does take a degree of compromise. I noticed early on is that a very high percentage of the leaders in CIV were militaristic - I could probably add AGG to nearly half the leaders and maintain historical accuracy. Adding a new militaristic trait is exactly what I had in mind. It seemed that there wasn't really a trait that defined Hannibal's genius on the battlefield, or Ragnar's taking of Paris... we call them aggressive, but historically it was clearly more than a "run and gun - I have a better military than you" type of mentality. I wanted a militaristic trait that incorporated the concept of strategy to a greater degree

 

[ilovesimgolf]

Silence,

It's funny you say that - I actually went back and modded all of the traits including FIN. I had some pretty wild ideas, but that's another story.

One thing I've been really focusing on lately is trying to give the various leaders the most historically accurate set of traits without duplicating any trait combo. Often a problem that I run into is that a given trait combo would be perfect for several leaders... so it does take a degree of compromise. I noticed early on is that a very high percentage of the leaders in CIV were militaristic - I could probably add AGG to nearly half the leaders and maintain historical accuracy. Adding a new militaristic trait is exactly what I had in mind. It seemed that there wasn't really a trait that defined Hannibal's genius on the battlefield, or Ragnar's taking of Paris... we call them aggressive, but historically it was clearly more than a "run and gun - I have a better military than you" type of mentality. I wanted a militaristic trait that incorporated the concept of strategy to a greater degree

That is quite the mod!

I agree that we should have a "strategic" trait, but had a completely different idea for it: what if every trait gave a "unique improvement". For example, financial could have an uber-cottage that produced production as well, and aggressive could have an enhanced "workshop" that doubled its shields when working on military, etc. Maybe a strategic trait could allow a "safe house" to be built, that produced extra spy points (someone complained about there not being enough).

Anybody like this idea, or would this make things too complicated?

--ilovesimgolf

 

[Silence101]

Silence,



That is quite the mod!

I agree that we should have a "strategic" trait, but had a completely different idea for it: what if every trait gave a "unique improvement". For example, financial could have an uber-cottage that produced production as well, and aggressive could have an enhanced "workshop" that doubled its shields when working on military, etc. Maybe a strategic trait could allow a "safe house" to be built, that produced extra spy points (someone complained about there not being enough).

Anybody like this idea, or would this make things too complicated?

--ilovesimgolf

I'm always open to trying new ideas. We'd have to see how it played before judging if it's a good idea or not. The only issue I have with your idea is that I'm not sure how to mod that - again, this might be something beyond the scope of what can be done in XML.

 

[Silence101]

OK... last time (hopefully)...

I'm leaning toward the free mobility promotion being overpowered as well (Basically doubling the movement of melee / gun units). So, instead, here's what I have in mind:

+10% Espionage
+50% GG modifier
+100% Intel Agency production bonus
Free tactics promotion for Melee & Gun

 

[Antilogic]

Pray tell, what is a "GG modifier"?

I'd be apprehensive of giving out a promotion only normally available to Warlord units as a free promotion for a leader trait.

 

[King of Town]

I don't know, I think thats sort of the thing he is looking for. Maybe instead of giving it free, perhaps just make it available as a regular promo? He was sort of looking for something for the leaders that didn't win with just brute force, but with guile. I think one of those special prootions would achieve that.

 

[Silence101]

Pray tell, what is a "GG modifier"?

Great General Modifier

I'd be apprehensive of giving out a promotion only normally available to Warlord units as a free promotion for a leader trait.

I don't know, I think thats sort of the thing he is looking for. Maybe instead of giving it free, perhaps just make it available as a regular promo? He was sort of looking for something for the leaders that didn't win with just brute force, but with guile. I think one of those special prootions would achieve that.

I went through the promotions that were available to find one's that made the most sense. King of Town seems to understand where I'm coming from. I didn't specifically seek out Warlord promotions, but they just so happen to fall in line with the flavor of the trait... Warlords, go figure. Anyway, making the trait available as a regular promotion is a huge nerf, I think... (and I don't know how to mod that idea). As it is now, I've play tested it a few times to the middle ages and all the traits seemed to balance well. (Admittedly, my sample size isn't that large with only a few games.) I'm pleased with it as of now, though.

 

[Swedishguy]

I think it would be better to just call it an "espionage trait". If I were you, I wouldn't bother doing this.

 

[Mesix]

Between Aggressive, and Protective, and as half/half traits charismatic and imperialistic, I think the game has enough military oriented traits. I'd prefer Financial be fiddled with to deal with finances alone, and an "Academic" trait be added that boosts science. Kill two birds with one stone - deal with the "most powerful" trait that lends itself to a cookie cutter playstyle (financial) and add another trait along with it.

I like this idea. I personally like the financial trait, but you are right...it usually becomes more of a research tool than a financial one. It is easy to switch gears and earn cash for a few turns when needed (like upgrading units).

The only caution that I would have for adding a trait that gives an education bonus is that a leader that has both financial and research bonuses would be very overpowered. Once you reach the midgame, you could run a specialist economy in all your cities. The education trait would give you a bonus for all the scientists while you run your slider at 0% research and collect a lot of cash from the financial trait.

 

[Silence101]

I think it would be better to just call it an "espionage trait". If I were you, I wouldn't bother doing this.

PEOPLE - It's not an espionage trait! AHHHHH!