Strategy discussion

Hello Stile,

SIN
The question, whether founding Sin is a truly efficient strategy is not easy to answer, but there are a few strong points which are really favoring this decision :

1) Sin is the second best settling point in a diameter of up to 10 squares around our capital as long as we are regarding unsettled territory only.

2) Sin is the Suez-Channel, which will really help us in settling Africa. As all our ships normally protect our Fish Resources in the Mediterranian Sea, only from time to time we need to send one ship down south. In my scenario the majority of settlers comes from Sur - so whenever Sur is nearly finishing a settler I place a ship in Sin, then I load my settler and then we go south. In the beginning the infrastructure in Africa is weak. We simply need our few workers to improve our homelands. So there will not be any roads in Africa and then you can imagine that a ship is saving us lots of time.

3) Sin is the Suez channel which is linking your empire together. The majority of all our cities is located at the coast, so especially at the beginning the connection of our capital and the African towns is happening thanks to Sin.

4) Last but not least when it comes to war especially in the mid game the suez channel is giving you a lots of flexibility in moving your troops.
Your most likely opponents are India, Spain, Arabia and China (next to Greece and Rome). As you see these wars need troop concentrations on very opponent spots of the world, but these spots are connected by .. Sin

5) Sin is a unit production hub in my scenario. I would not know how I would produce my army of Spearmen etc. without Sin. In the midgame (thanks to the Harbour, the Great Lighthouse and its good productivitity) Sin also is likely to become the third best Research Center. After our capital (Xou) and Niwt-Rst.
This is because of the fact that the area around Yerushalem get raized veeery often. At first from the Barbs, then from Arabia etc. But the area west of Sin is save, so that Sin can grow better the most of the time. Only late Yerushalem can catch up and emerge as one of our commercial hubs.

6) Sin is THE border fortress which protects our homelands from any raiders from the east. I assure you, you do not want any roaming Camel Archers marching over your just fully grown villages and town in the Nile Area. It simply took too much time for them to grow.

AFRICA
The African Expansion is of course a matter of timing. But I assure you, you will not be able rush out Settlers very fast, too much other things need our attention.

In general Egypt's economy is based on deficit spending. So we need constant infusion of money by ...

- native villages
- mercenaries
- tech trading
- Great Merchants
- fake building wonders
- Resource trading

The point is that these things are not that difficult and except for a few dark ages, we can keep up our research and economy on a sufficient level.

It turned out that the best strategy for Egypt is the follower strategy. That means, you should not aim for technical leadership but be a mid level player and trade , trade, trade. So do not cripple your economy to gain the newest technology as soon as possible , but keep up with your opponents and research only what they do not have. Leave the newest techs to Persia.

Russia, Mali, India, Persia (for money), Germany and later America are our most important tech trading partners. Keep best relations with them and make sure that they do not get wiped out.
(if necessary 'buy' peace for them from their opponents)

YERUSHALEM
Yerushalem is tricky, of course I say NO, when these Arabs ask me to leave it. I mean I was paying for it with the blood of MY soldiers - i never would give it up.
Then the Arabs attack. Unfortunately the Rhye engine is presenting them units from the disputed areas every turn until around 900 AD, this makes things difficult.

The solution is .. 2 galleys. :)
The disputed area is not including Sin and not including the sea.
So I always keep only 2 units in Yerushalem (except for emergency), because then most likely no unit is changing sides.
The healing of units is happening only in Sin, so we always keep units loaded on galleys outside of Yerushalem to permanently restock our units in Yerushalem with freshly healed units and evacuate the injured units.
 
Thanks Rod. You make a convincing argument for Sin. I was mainly curious as to how strategically important the location was (later in the game on Emperor), since I typically locate my cities differently and use all the tiles.

I'm slowly incorporating your guide. Last night I tried Egypt again (v1.24), and used much of your tech path which served me well. A prophet spawned with about a 65% chance, and my money woes were over. Judaism was in over 15 cities and still spreading. In an attempt to please Greece I joined them against India. Persia seemed very happy with me. But then 2-3 turns before Arabia spawned Persia declared war on me from +8 relations. Fortunately I had about a dozen units between Sur and Jerusalem. But Cathage (Roman) had fallen to barbarians and 6 Camel Archers (3 slightly wounded) arrived at Xou simultaneously, plus 4 horse archers and 2 skirmishers in the south. I consolidated my forces in Jerusalem, ceding Sur to Persia militarily, when Arabia spawned. The first turn I lost several units including a C4 Axeman (yeah, I know, I promoted a variety of units, but all my specialty ones got killed) and my sole elephant in the area to Arabia's revolution. I lost my dye and ivory and with a loss of units fighting barbarians I had severe happiness problems. While I'm sure I can survive, let's just say the salad days are over and Jerusalem is sure to fall. Next up for me: Sin, galleys, and more effort to cultivate trading partners.
 
Interesting thoughts on Sin. I tried it to see what would happen. I settled sin, built a library to try to expand my borders, yet when Arabia spawned they flipped.
 
hello,

a flipping of Sin to Arabia had never happenend to me.

Did you found Sin on exactly that Desert Hill ?
Did you have Yershalem in your hands ?
Did they make this change in version 1.30 ? When I was playtesting it, i used RFC 1.24.
 
Great guide Rod! That makes one of the starting civs a whole lot easier to play.

Just wondering if anyone has any good guides for China or India? Especially China, as I always find myself going bankrupt, technologically backward and getting swarmed by barbs.
 
Someone posted a brief overview of a game as China a while back, but that's all I remember aside from that it wasn't in this thread.
 
Rob, I play Egypt alot myself, and with the newer versions, Sin seems to flip to Arabia... I'm not sure why on some games it does and some it doesn't though, more often than not, Arabia gets my Sin... Never for long though...
 
i must say, i started a game as germany and they are freakin weak...I started with 3 longbowmans and a few axemen, and I have France and Rome already disliking me. Rome declared war on me on like the 3rd turn, and sent in a huge army of pretorians and horse archers, i was wiped out quick.
 
Never give up, never surrender (quote from 'Galaxy Quest')

that means, do not be upset because you got wiped out in the first time.

I was replaying the first 50 turns with Egypt alltogether 8 times, before I had the satisfying results that you can see now in the guide.

If you want an easier game to get used to Rhye then I sincerely suggest you to start with Persia or Mongols. Their unique power is so strong and so much fun, that you get addicted to RFC in one hour :)
 
Germany isn't weak! I just played a game with them and quickly overan eastern France, Eastern Europe, Italy and Carthage. I might've won if I hadn't suddenly been attacked by the Russians and Arabians...
 
I agree, I've played as Germany a couple times and (BOTH times) when I spawned, Rome had already colapsed... It was a race between France and I to snatch up the reminance of Roman cities (which were PACKED with barbarian praetorians)... Anyway, (@BigK89m), I guess you just got unlucky...
 
This thread needs some more strat guides...

Ideas for countries that really need strat guides:
Arabia
Greece
Persia
Germany
America

These strike me as being particularly difficult to play (especially with Arabia's insanely difficult UHV).
 
persia is easy!

Its like two countries in one, persia and india, you get 3 holy city's a semi-continant nearly ever resaurce you need, I dont see the problem arabia and greace are hard though, I only played with america once and I had state property for it :)

germany doesnt seem to hard, if you are happy with the russians or wipe them out early on...
 
This isn't so mucha strategy guide as a few goals to aim for and a few tips on how to play with Arabia.

First off, playing as Arabia means being hated. All of the European civs will hate you, and the Eastern ones won't be all that firendly either. Your only potential friend is Mali, and that's only if they end up adopting Islam.

So first off, on your first turn don't switch civics, else you won't be able to switch to islam the next turn and thus, your UP won't be applied to the cities that flip to you. While we're on the topic, the Arabian UP is very useful for the warmonger, since it takes care of any cultural problems your captured cities might have.

Your only real good city on the Arabian Peninsula is Makkah. The rest of them are low on food and lower on production, so you'll want to be using those camel archers you started with straight away to get ahold of some better cities. If Persia collapsed, then you probably won't be getting much in the way of cities flipping to you, which is a double edged sword. IF the cities of Mesopotamia have been razed, then you can move in and build some better cities in their place. If this is the case, build Baghdad (on the plains tile on the side of the river, right next to all those flood plains). I find it makes the most use of the nearby resources, and if Parsa's been rased, then build Kirman (one tile below parsa's ruins).

But before you do any of this, your first order of business should be an invasion of Egypt. There are some good cities to be had there. The odds are fairly good that the Egyptians have passed on, and in that case your job will be easier. If you're lucky, then you'll be able to take a few wonders along with the Egyptian cities, like Stonehenge and The Pyramids and maybe a few more if you're even luckier.

Once you've taken Egypt, you might wanna take a break from expansion and give your economy some time to catch its breath. Consider putting some troops up for hire as mercs if you're running especially low. Keep most of your camel archers in Egypt, since you'll almost definitely be getting hit by waves of barb camel archers, and if you're careless you'll most definitely lose a city or even all of them.

Another thing to aim for is to get THE SPIRAL MINARET. This compliments your UP very nicely. Also, if you got lucky with a few wonders in Egypt, try to aim for a great prophet to further increase your profits, or, more likely, to help pull yourself out of the hole. You may start to lose your tech lead, but don't worry. Once you've established yourself, you can catch back up fairly early.

A few more things to consider doing:

Build a city on the choke point that leads to Russia: Preferably on the desert tile to get access to the oil that will be in the water later on. Thic city will help protect you from invasion from Russia so long as you keep it well guarded.

Try to get Turkey: For the same reasons as the former, the choke point can protect you against European invasion.

Expand into North Africa: Only do this once your economy is slightly more stable. There is iron there, a resource which you most likely lack (although there is some near Kirman/Parsa).

Build the Temple of Solomon: Only if you get a second great prophet. If you do happen to, send him to Jerusalem right away and get on that, and then spread Judaism to all of your cities. The extra cash definitely won't hurt.

Invade India: Again, only if your economy is stable. India is a pushover, though, so you won't meet much resistance if you choose to do this.

Also, you won't have any lack of oil, and can put a bit of a monopoly on it if you so choose. Spain and France will have some from South America, and England has some off of the coast, but a lot of the other civs of the game won't have any and oil is a prettttty valuable resource.

That's all i can think of right now, but if anything else comes to mind I might add some more.
 
persia is easy!

Its like two countries in one, persia and india, you get 3 holy city's a semi-continant nearly ever resaurce you need, I dont see the problem arabia and greace are hard though, I only played with america once and I had state property for it

Persia is not so fun, since your millennia old indian full developed cities will inevitably claim independence and you'll find immediately without the income of two shrine, without the Gp farm, the wonders and the forbidden palace...
 
Reading this thread really makes you appreciate how Rhye's mod has improved on the original game. I have no input to the strategies, but they make a great read.
 
there are some gems on the coast northwest of Moscow, its a good idea to build a city there just to get them.)

Nope, I can't find them...
 
Not much of a strategy guide, but I did managed to play a pretty decent game with the Greeks, albeit on the lowest difficulty setting. The biggest challenge, naturally, was holding on to my Mesopotamian conquests/settlements after Arabia spawned. Obviously the key was having enough Phalanxes ready, and enough production capacity to pump them out quickly, to beat back the initial onslaught of Camel Archers. Arabia's production capacity is poor, so if you can survive the initial onslaught, you can usually overwhelm them with numbers. After that, I had no major problems until the Persians declared their independance on me during the Modern Era. By the end of the game, I had taken over Rome, Germany, Russia, Persia, Arabia, India, and most of Egypt. I was about to take down France before the Persian revolt sidetracked me. None of these empires had collapsed of their own accord during my game.

In addition to the Pesian revolt, both Arabia and Russia revolted on me during the game. The Russian revolt was a little troublesome due to the 10%/turn attrition my forces took while in Russian territory, but fortunately I had stocked my former Russian cities with enough Cannon in anticipation of such an occurence to make subduing the rebels a little easier.
 
Riker said:
Nope, I can't find them...

The city built next to them is called Vorkuta, there's also copper nearby and it's on a river. I'ts kind of diagonal (up and right) from Moscow.
 
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