Strategy discussion

[Gatsby]

I too would really like to know how to achieve the UHV's for the following civ's:

Persia
Arabia
America
Mali
Rome

I've played Persia, and that goal of 20% of world territory by 650AD or whatever is impossible. The upkeep costs alone will cripple your economy before you even get to 10%, and the Satrapy power is virtually useless.

I tried America, and foolishly wasted my resources on a war with the Aztecs when I should have targeted European Nations. But when it says "no European Cities in American continent in 1900 AD" does that mean North AND South America and the Carribean Islands? Because that sounds like a tall order to me.

Having just read a previous post about a Greece-to-Russia strategy, I came up with an idea about playing Arabia just now: start as Persia, focus primarily on building a massive state of the art army, conquer India, attack and weaken Greece (MAYBE), conquer Mesopotamia and Jerusalem, and just before the Arabs arrive, put ALL your units in Jerusalem and the Mesopotamian cities and take control of the Arabs. Then as the Arabs you can conquer Persia and Egypt easily, and move on to Europe. Would that work?

I haven't tried Mali yet, but the idea of having to amass 20000 gold in that short period of time seems too difficult for me to even consider trying. I suppose you would need to :

set research at 0%
choose gold optimising civics
set cities on gold maximisation mode?
build/spam cottages, markets, grocers, and banks if availiable
only use merchant specialists
go for great merchants and use them to create trade routes?
hire out heaps of mercenaries?

I played as Rome and thought I had fufilled the first two historical victory conditions but apparently I hadn't. I had all my >= size 5 cities connected to Rome with Barracks, Amphitheatre and Aqueduct in each, the Colissuem wonder in Rome for good measure, and I had cities in Carthaginian, French, English, Spanish, Greek, Jewish, Turkish, and Egyptian lands. So why didn't I satisfy the first two UHV conditions?

 

[Head Serf]

I don't think that a strategy that relies on using another civilization first is as much a strategy as an exploit.

 

[Gatsby]

I don't think that a strategy that relies on using another civilization first is as much a strategy as an exploit.

So???

At least it's thinking outside the box.

 

[Gatsby]

So I tried the Persia-Arabia strategy/exploit (you say tomato....) last night, and I haven't finished yet but so far it looks promising. I still have no idea how you are supposed to control 20% of the world's landmass as Persia by 600AD, but as Persia I built a heap of wonders, 1 holy shrine, was far ahead in tech., and conquered India and Greece with a large and diversified military force. A turn before Arabia is born, I moved most of my units into the soon-to-be Arab cities, pillage most of my own (Persia's) strategic military resources, and when the Arab cities flip they have a massive army at there disposal. When this occurs, I promptly upgrade all horse archers to Camel Archers, attack the near-empty Persian cities and I soon had the entire Persian empire from Greece to India under my (Arab) control.

Then the Romans declared war, I managed to conquer them (they collapsed after I took Rome) with my massive (mostly formerly Persian) army which I had concentrated in Greece, and now the year is about 900CE and I am just starting to invade France. I got a second shrine with a Great Prohpet from Perspepolis (the Persian wonder building spree, remember?) and should be able to get that third shrine before 1300AD with another Great Prophet. So if I keep on my toes, an Arab victory might be possible after all (although my research is really suffering at the moment due to upkeep costs).

This approach might also make an American UHV more obtainable: start as England, colonise and really build up the Eastern US, and build a massive land army as well as plently of transport and combat ships. Then you move as many of these units into the soon-to-be US cities around 1700CE as possible(especially the sea units) and when the cities flip to America, you (as the Americans) now have a massive army in order to drive the Europeans from the New World quickly and possibly attack the Aztecs. I'll have to try this one out.

 

[Abegweit]

The Aztecs

The unique power of the Aztecs is slavery. So never think of a training a worker. You will get plenty simply by taking out the barbs, never mind whatever civs you might have to fight. In fact, you won't know what to do with them all. For much of the game, you will find that about the best project is building long roads to future cities.

Basic strategy

The Aztecs start out with a huge continent all to themselves, just waiting to be filled out. The downside, of course, is that they are backwards and vulnerable to the superior knowledge and weaponry of the Europeans. As the Aztec civ awakes, the Europeans are able to cross the ocean to make contact but cannot yet colonise the continent. Your objective is to use that contact to not just come abreast but to leap ahead in technology while simultaneously taking all that glorious empty land.

Played properly, you should be able to deny the entire continent to the Europeans while simultaneously beating them in the Liberalism race. In fact, you should not just get to the Industrial Era in the required time-frame for the UHV but get there first.

The starting location is magnificent. Two Corn, several hills and a Dye. Production power. Commerce power. And food to back it up. If there ever was a location which cried for Bureaucracy, this is it. A couple of your towns, including the capital, will need Sailing to get Lighthouses but you won't go far wrong if you go straight for The Money instead of satisfying these needs. The bottom line is that the research path must be either Sailing-CS or CS straightaway.

There is a second reason to go for CS too. The AI likes the top and bottom research paths. If you go for the middle one, you are likely to garner monopoly techs which you can trade for several on the other paths.

Finally, if there wasn't enough reason already, CS gets you halfway to Maces - and Maces are the great equalizers which give you the capability to defend yourself from European incursions. To the point that the hardest part of your UHV may be to find Europeans to enslave. Well... you can find them in Europe

In this regard, continue in the same direction through the tech tree with PP, Paper, Education, etc. More trade-bait. You should be need able to get everything else you need through trade. The only thing you should keep an eye out for is the key military techs: Machinery, Optics, and Astronomy. Machinery gets your maces. Optics gives you contacts. Especially make sure to get to that Great African Tech Whore. You and he will make fine music together. You need Astronomy mainly for protection from barb galleys. It’s not time to invade Europe. Yet … Machinery should be easy to trade for. Optics, and especially Astronomy, will be harder. If you can’t get to Astronomy on time, make sure to have several caravels ready on both coasts.

When you get to Liberalism, you can take any path you choose. I personally like to go for rifling to prepare for the next great challenge… the arrival of the Americans.

OK. ‘Nuff long-range stuff. Let’s get back to opening moves.

Settle to the northeast. Switch civics immediately before secondary cities are impacted. HR and slavery are tough to beat, and only cost one turn, so go for it. However, T... whatever its name, should not be whipped. The location is powerful and, under Bureaucracy, the capital should be big so let it grow. At most take the occasional settler off it. Don’t hesitate with whip elsewhere though. I like to settle the other two cities to the north just above the Spices and to the Northwest, just east of the clams. The northern city should get a whipped library. The Northwestern one gets a work boat and a library, both whipped.

Send all the Jaguars south-east. There are a couple of Mayan cities which are well worth taking. Don’t be afraid of the poor odds. The game has been rigged and you will win! This seems to be a general characteristic of late RFC starts. The first three or four attacks are 100% sure to succeed. Tikal will eventually turn into a nice city. Chichen Itza will always be poor but, with a lighthouse and library, it will certainly pay for itself. Build the workboat out of the capital. It will take too long to build at Chicken.

If you have good success, you can move on to the Incas. Their city of Quito is well worth having. Grab it and they will be trapped on the coast forever. Just raze the next city down the coast (I forget its name) so that you get the corn. Stop there. The others will alway be small and a drain on your economy. If you tackle the Inca, the only thing which can go wrong is that they get mercenaries. War elephants, in particular, are extremely dangerous because they can enter the jungle. So be careful about the Mercenary situation. You might even hire them yourself for denial purposes.

Further expansion

Don’t go much further into South America than Caracas (at least not in the second phase). It's too far away and, in any case, you should be concentrating on claiming the US. Getting iron or copper is especially important to be able to build those maces. There is copper in the desert to the north, but it’s a terrible location. Seattle also has some and it’s a nice spot. Still, you should be building towards the Europeans, not away from them. Chicago is an absolutely magnificent location and there is iron just to the east. Reach for it. So New Orleans should be your next city after the initial five or six. It has some nice food. Then comes Chicago. This location should contain your FP. It is nice and central to your American core, if slightly north, and will be a powerhouse. Charleston, New York and Sydney to the east. St. Louis, Winnipeg and Sudbury to the west and north.

Then sit back and wait for the arrival of the Europeans. Or take the game to them if you prefer. Just remember to be ready for the Americans. Cannons and rifles in New York and Chicago (which can use them for happy issues if you still have them) will make sure that they get a fine welcome.

 

[NitroJay]

***India!***

Yes, I know the Unique Historical Victory is very non-historical and I know the Unique Unit is next to useless, but come on, India can be fun! Even though I think the UHV of having to found 5 religions should REALLY be changed, it is possible to win a UHV with India on Monarch on a semi-consistant basis...

When you found Delhi, you should immediatly send your first warrior on a scouting mission. His goals should be: #1, get a visual on the place where the the two rivers meet SW of Delhi; and #2, make his way toward Europe.

Delhi should build another warrior. This will be the extent of your military.

Before you hit the end turn button, don't forget to set your research path. Make a beeline straight for Monotheism. If you don't go for Monotheism, Judaism will be founded in the Middle East, right away wasting a religion toward your goal...

Once your second warrior is finished, start working on Stonehenge. You NEED Stonehenge to win!

Once Delhi's population hits 2, take a break on Stonehenge to rush out a settler... Build a city right above that precious little marble site. Your new city, Thandigarh, or something like that... (It starts with a 'T,' that's all I know...) T city should produce a warrior, JUST IN CASE one of those barbarian warriors from up north come wandering down... T city should also produce a Fast Worker.

Make sure that once Delhi has finished the T-city's settler, it goes back to Stonehenge, btw...

Have your worker throw a quarry on the pile of marble...

T-city should then begin producing The Parthenon.

You now have two cities producing wonders, Stonhenge in Delhi and The Parthenon in T-city... I hope you like the End Turn button...

Oh wait, I forgot about the warrior. If he hasn't been picked off by a bear yet, he should be ready to make contact with the Greeks, and, more importantly, the Romans. This is your first warriors soul purpose in life. Don't waste him on a goody hut ambush...

Right about now, you should be founding Judaism in T-City. Your next tech, should be Priesthood. In some games, I've seen China or Greece get this first if you spend time dicking around with something as unimportant as agriculture or the wheel... If someone else founds Hinduism or Buddism, you should just give up, you suck.

Once you have priesthood, and the Buddism founding in T-city, change T-city from the Parthenon to The Oracle! (We'll come back to the Parthenon later.) Put your research now into Meditation to snatch up Hinduism. Now you need writting.

Is Delhi getting close to finishing Stonehenge yet? Whenever that happens, make sure you switch your religious civic to PASSIVISM. (Oh yeah, I said it.) Passivism sucks for everyone else, but it a requirement for India. It's great not having any anarchy, switch all you want, but keep passivism. While your at it, go into Delhi's city manager and turn on the "Great People" focus. See where I'm going with this? Delhi is yours to do what you want with it... Build monuments or reserve settlers (my personal favorite) but DO NOT build up your military. Passivism on the religious civic will kill you... Also, don't found any new cities, yet, as the strain on your economy will choke your research.

T-city's culture should be looking pretty good now with 3 founding religions in it. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, if China founds Confusism or Taoism, don't sweat it, we're not worried about those...

Sometime soon, if it hasn't already happened, Persia will spawn. You MUST kiss Persia's ass. Get open borders. They want you to declare war on the Greeks? Do it. They want money you don't have? Give it. Persia can rip through your two warrior world in a second... Babylonia is another problem. A couple of my games, they brought over stacks of their UU (the bowmen) and made me wish I was playing a Babylon game... It wouldn't hurt to kiss their ass too, but if Babylon and Persia go to war, back Persia, they are a GREAT buffer.

Do you know what else is a great buffer? JUNGLE. China wants to throw down with you, let'em. They won't be able to come at you with anything except scouts. ONCE, China led a massive one catapult assult around the mountains against my T-City. I'm not kidding you, one catapult... They were taken out by the barbs, no surprise there...

ANYWAY, MAKE SURE that you don't finish the Oracle before you finish researching writting!!! If it's close, switch back to the Parthenon for a little bit. Once you have writting, finish the Oracle. Of look, Theology!

Now you have FOUR religions, Judaism, Buddism, Hinduism, and Christianity. And Christianity comes with a missionary! You have two options here: #1, send the missionary to Delhi and make your state religion Christianity or #2, send the missionary to Persia's Parsa and STILL make your religion Christianity, but now you have another thing in common with your master Persia. Here's how I decide: If Persia and I are good (i.e., I've "helped" them out by declaring war on someone they didn't like) I'll give the missionary to Delhi. Christianity can spread fine on it's own. If Persia isn't good with me though, I NEED them to be my friend, so I will send the missionary there and watch them convert. The only flaw here is if Persia ALREADY got Judaism... They won't go for Christianity... Tough call then...

Anyway, once the Oracle has been built, it's time to focus on the LAST religion left... Islam... It's IMPOSSIBLE to research Devine Right before the Arabs spawn, I don't care what you say. I've tried it every way I can think of, so unless your a Viceroy playing wimp, it can't happen. This is where the Stonehenge and the Oracle (with their Great Prophet spawning) and the Passivism (with it's Great People Boost) and the Great People focus in Delhi, AND the Parthenon you are about to build (with IT'S great people boost) REALLY come into play... NOW do you see where I am going?

RESEARCH: You now need Monarchy. Make sure you get it before your first Great Prophet is born. It may seem like a waste of Prophets when you have Four founding religions in one city, but it has to be done for the UHV. You will use TWO prophets to found Devine Right. If you don't have Monarchy when one of the prophets is born, he will want to research CODE OF LAWS. (I figure this is a hold over from when Confussism was founded with code of laws...) If you have Monarchy, he will put his research toward Devine Right. Your goal is to have TWO great prophets spawn before Arabia spawns but AFTER you secure Monarchy.

Remember your (probably) long dead first warrior? It's nice to know Greece and Rome now because they've probably made their way to Alphabet and you can trade some techs to fill out your tech tree... Finally getting to put that Fast Warrior to work. Oh yeah, wake his ass up!

Once the Parthenon is done in T-city, start building Archers (if you can), if not, ANYTHING to boost the defenses there. (Warriors probably won't cut it, which is why you needed to meet Rome and Greece with their rushes to Alphabet...) Horse Archers are on there way for T-City. 4-6 Archers should stem the tide... Walls don't hurt either. Stay on focus though, stop building military units if your Monarchy research is really starting to dwindle... (remember, you're a passivist...) Try to avoid using Slavery (if you were able to trade something for Bronze working) unless you're in a real pinch, since this will hurt your last goal, being first in pop...

Once your people have spawned and you managed to get Devine Right, you can take a breath, you've passed the hardest goal! Say hello to that Triumphal Arch!

Take your cities off the Great People focus, switch to a more military friendly religious civic, and start sending out/building settlers! Colonize every inch of land in India. Put your cities on FULL GROWTH. Is Persia still around? If not, (or if they are REALLY weak) go after them! Take all the barb cities you can! Take the Persian cities if you can... Yeah, you've kissed their ass long enough, and by now, they should be looking pretty weak to you... You don't have a lot of time, 1200AD is coming up quick. Since your probably don't have Calendar, keep an eye on what Civs are spawning, this tells you how close you are getting to the end of your game.

Your biggest rival in Population is typically Japan at this point. They have nice fat untouched cities on an island with nothing better to do but grow. This late in the game, having spent all your time with just two cities, you can't outgrow anyone. You need to think about taking cities by force. I can usually do it with a galley and some swordmen in South East Asia, but I most recently did it by capturing Persia's remaining three cities. If China collapsed, go after their cities! Don't take the lone catapult route around the mountains though, you're smarter than that, you build a galley. This is where you start being happy about having a FAST worker as your UU...

IT'll be close, it's always close... But you can do it. 1200AD rolls around and you get that victory message, it'll be worth it. Add a India Historical Victory on Monarch to your hall of fame.

 

[Agramon]

Seems you worked out Indian UHV quite well, but I'd still argue to build Multan instead of the "T-City". Just south of the peaks and north of the swamps. It seals the subcontinent to the East against any invasion (most probably barbarian). There is one passage left in the mountains. But you can defend it easilywith a fortified unit in the wood next to it or on the hill outside, if you require cutting it.

 

[NitroJay]

Multan works just as well, but I've found that it "provokes" Persia a little too much... If you follow my strategy, most (if not all 5) of the religions are founded in your second city (which seems silly because Delhi is left with nothing...)... The culture from the second city will push against Persia either way you do it, but with my T-city, you still allow Persia a little room and the barbarians will go after it constantly, with no holes in your defense once the culture from the religions spread. Having that T-city tucked into the mountains there, with walls and archers, will keep the barbarians at bay indefinatly...

 

[sdLeo]

Little question on the Arabian onslaught on the Holy Land cities (the ones you all refuse to give up hehe....

When the Arabs declare on you and you start losing units...

1) What are the best units to fend the camels off?
2) Is there a radius for the deserter effect? Would placing units onto galleys off the coast of Jerusalem prevent those units from deserting?

 

[Phallus]

1. Tanks.
2. From my experience it does, but just to be more careful you may want to spend one turn moving the galley away from Jerusalem.

 

[Abegweit]

Phalanxes eat 'em for lunch. A couple of decent properly-promoted spears should do quite well too.

 

[NitroJay]

1.) Spears do pretty well, Pikemen better. Promote the spears up a few stars and you'll be fine.

2.) I think the new civ spawn diserter effect goes on for like 10 turns...

 

[REDY]

May somebody make guide for English? I never was so good to make historical objectives, especcialy second one.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

There is a guide for English already, though it's a pretty old one.

Main points in achieving the goals:

1) Build London, Plymouth, Manchester and city in Ireland or South Africa. With luck you get religion in the first few turns, and with more luck it is the same that Spanish have.
2) 2 cities in South Africa, 3 cities in USA, and 2 or 3 cities in Australia. If you transport one of your first settlers to South Africa, the goal is a lot easier. In England build two settlers to be transported to USA and one/two to be transported in Australia. 2 in USA will both build a city, and one of those will build later a settler and found a new city. In Australia the same trick. In South Africa one city, which will later build a settler.
3)Make friends with others. Mali is a good friend, rich and advanced. And have a big navy to repel enemy invasions if you have big enemies.
4)Trade techs for money. That way you gain money to keep your research up in order to research Industrial Age techs.
5)Circumnavigation is easy, just build two caravels and let one to go westwards, one eastwards.

 

[REDY]

Hitti-Litti: Thanks, but..I logically put first settlers to Australia and Asia..is Asia as part Euroasia or you forget on it? Maybe is problem there.
However, I also want build cities which will never fall to American hands.
Have your cities garisson? How many?

I often have no war with European countries, they are peacful to me..

And these cities which you mentioned are for all time in British isles (Manchester, London, Plymouth, Dublin), or in future you should build for example Edinburgh?

Thanks for help.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

My cities in US have garrison, about 2-4 units. They beat barbs easily.

Asia a part of Eurasia? What are you talking about? Have I missed a goal change of English UHV?

 

[REDY]

You hadnt told about settling Asia in previous post...

 

[Hitti-Litti]

So the UHV needs settling in Asia too. Hmm... Do you need to found cities there or capture? If capture, then I think cavalry-rush to India would be appropriate. If settle, then maybe India needs to be crushed and re-settled...

 

[REDY]

So the UHV needs settling in Asia too. Hmm... Do you need to found cities there or capture? If capture, then I think cavalry-rush to India would be appropriate. If settle, then maybe India needs to be crushed and re-settled...

Hey I dont know, so I ask

 

[McA123]

There's a thread showing the areas that need to be settled for every continent, and while I can't find it out of hand, Asia is not considered to be part of Europe, to make Eurasia. two different continents. Also, I'd say that you probably have to settle the cities, not just take 'em.