Strategy discussion

[micbic]

I meant Rhode, not Rhodes, sorry. Modernly it's called Rosas, Roses in English. Here you can find out more about the town I mean. Actually, it was founded by colonists from the Rhodes in southern Turkey. I'm spanish, I know the history of my country .

About sk8er AG's question, my choices are usually Santiago de Compostela, Santander (with "e"), Madrid, Valencia (or Murcia) and Cadiz. Also, I usually go for that precious iron in the northwest african coast. I can't recall the name of the city, sorry. Starting there, I usually conquer or found some cities (usually Melilla, as you say) so the straight remains inside my frontiers.

For the new world, I usually mantain the cities founded by the aztecs. About the incan cities, I mantain La Paz (the northernmost city) and the capital. Also, I usually found Los Angeles or San Diego, in US California. Usually that will mean a war with America, but if you manage well, you can resist and mantain all the east coast, making US no more than a backwater power.

I am Greek, and I can tell you (from what I remember) that the most important Greek colony in Spain was Emporium (nowadays Amburias)

 

[Tullius]

APacifist, I've never had trouble with foreign stability, I just vassalize a few people and go to Viceroyalty. It's the economy I have trouble with due to my lack of expansion. I started a thread on that elsewhere, though, so I won't open that can of worms here.

 

[JediClemente]

I am Greek, and I can tell you (from what I remember) that the most important Greek colony in Spain was Emporium (nowadays Amburias)

It's Ampurias (with "p"), and both of them are studied in all spanish schools as the most important greek colonies in Hispania.

 

[Tullius]

It's Ampurias (with "p"), and both of them are studied in all spanish schools as the most important greek colonies in Hispania.

The 'b' and 'p' sounds in Greek are very similar.

 

[LukeUeda-Sarson]

I am Greek, and I can tell you (from what I remember) that the most important Greek colony in Spain was Emporium (nowadays Amburias)

Indeed, and it is where we get the word in English "emporium" from - i.e. a small trading post of no particular consequence. As I said before, the nearest Greek city-state of any importance to Spain was Massilia (modern Marseilles in France). The Greek outposts in Spain were just that - outposts, tiny places of no great hostotical importance except in a vey local fashion. Contrast the precarious situation of these emporia, clinging to the coat, hoping not be attcked by the locals, with a place like Maassilia, or cyrene in Africa, which ruled a vast hinterland, and subjugated lots of locals rather than tried deperately not to upset them, and which are indeed worthy of the appellation "city-state". Emporia were neither cities no states.

Cheers, Luke

 

[fearuin]

It's Ampurias (with "p"), and both of them are studied in all spanish schools as the most important greek colonies in Hispania.

Yeah, Ampurias will be as right as Rosas. Choose whatever you like better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by micbic View Post
I am Greek, and I can tell you (from what I remember) that the most important Greek colony in Spain was Emporium (nowadays Amburias)
Indeed, and it is where we get the word in English "emporium" from - i.e. a small trading post of no particular consequence. As I said before, the nearest Greek city-state of any importance to Spain was Massilia (modern Marseilles in France). The Greek outposts in Spain were just that - outposts, tiny places of no great hostotical importance except in a vey local fashion. Contrast the precarious situation of these emporia, clinging to the coat, hoping not be attcked by the locals, with a place like Maassilia, or cyrene in Africa, which ruled a vast hinterland, and subjugated lots of locals rather than tried deperately not to upset them, and which are indeed worthy of the appellation "city-state". Emporia were neither cities no states.

Cheers, Luke

And you're telling me that Inverness, e.g. was a metropolis, no? I think Ampurias and Rosas are important enough to be represented in the scenario. Maybe nowadays are backwater cities, but that doesn't justify them to be skipped, specially if we want the greeks not to sit in their peninsulae and wait for the other civs to come and pillage.

 

[LukeUeda-Sarson]

Yeah, Ampurias will be as right as Rosas. Choose whatever you like better.



And you're telling me that Inverness, e.g. was a metropolis, no? I think Ampurias and Rosas are important enough to be represented in the scenario. Maybe nowadays are backwater cities, but that doesn't justify them to be skipped, specially if we want the greeks not to sit in their peninsulae and wait for the other civs to come and pillage.

They *are* represented in the scenario - it's why the Greek settler map is pink along western Spain. The Greek AI will settle there if nobody else does, and they are free to do so unhampred by wars, etc. However, the Greek AI, rightfully, attaches more importance to areas like the Crimea which had actual Greek city states present in real life; that's why they are crimson in the settler map.

As for Inverness, well, you'll have to argue that with Rhye, not me. I have absolutely no idea why it is there.

Cheers, Luke

 

[Hangly Man]

anyone have any tips for persia, tried the strat guide and cant seem to meet uhv requirements

Me either. In my last game I conquered Babylon, the Independents, Northern India and Egypt (giving me 30% of the world's population I might add) and I still only have 4.05% of the land. To win I have to double that? Seriously? I waged nonstop war for 60 turns with hardly a setback to get to where I am. There's just not enough time.

Unless I get the land another way... Anyone ever try settling to get to 8%?

 

[LukeUeda-Sarson]

Me either. In my last game I conquered Babylon, the Independents, Northern India and Egypt (giving me 30% of the world's population I might add) and I still only have 4.05% of the land. To win I have to double that? Seriously? I waged nonstop war for 60 turns with hardly a setback to get to where I am. There's just not enough time.

Unless I get the land another way... Anyone ever try settling to get to 8%?

Something is seriously wrong if you've taken India (why stop at just the north, tough?), Egypt, Babylonia, and the independents, and you only have 4% land. That should be giving you over 7%. The independents alone should be giving several per cent. Sarmarkand because of its inland location is your first target, because after two border pops, it covers a lot of space. You are maximising border popping, aren't you? Land = culture.

Don't conquer India too early, or you will have to fill it out yourself - but not too late or they will have elephants.

(Caveat - not played Persia in 1.183. Presume Great Wall is vital along with currency)

Cheers, Luke

 

[Hangly Man]

Something is seriously wrong if you've taken India (why stop at just the north, tough?), Egypt, Babylonia, and the independents, and you only have 4% land. That should be giving you over 7%. The independents alone should be giving several per cent. Sarmarkand because of its inland location is your first target, because after two border pops, it covers a lot of space. You are maximising border popping, aren't you? Land = culture.

Don't conquer India too early, or you will have to fill it out yourself - but not too late or they will have elephants.

(Caveat - not played Persia in 1.183. Presume Great Wall is vital along with currency)

Cheers, Luke

I've gotten the 8% in previous versions but I just can't get that far in the most recent one before my economy craps out. I think the reason is that rivals don't automatically collapse anymore when you take their capitols. I can reduce Babylon, Egypt and India by 2/3 and they'll become unstable but they won't collapse. I had to wait for catapults to dislodge the last few cities of each and by that time I was at 0% science and going bankrupt. Attacking Greece or Carthage was out of the question.

 

[Hangly Man]

Also who scripted the barbarians that come down from Europe to attack Greece in the early Christian era? Who do I send the flaming box of dog doodoo to?

No one no one regardless of skill can hold off 50+ horse archers and axemen arriving at once. They literally wiped me clean off the map.

 

[blizzrd]

Also who scripted the barbarians that come down from Europe to attack Greece in the early Christian era? Who do I send the flaming box of dog doodoo to?

No one no one regardless of skill can hold off 50+ horse archers and axemen arriving at once. They literally wiped me clean off the map.

Build the Great Wall in either Athens or Byzantion. Problem solved.

 

[Mishter Magooh]

I'm having problems with my Arab game (600 AD). How do you deal with the pikemen in North Africa, as my Camels have no chance and only once in a blue moon retreat? Also, how do you reach Spain, since Al-Iskrandya and Al-Quds aren't exactly production powerhouses? This last one isn't exactly a strategy question but I'd still like to know why the UP of the Arabs doesn't affect their own cities. It makes no sense that the Arabs would erect temples in heathen cities and yet fail to even spread the faith in their own.

 

[Tullius]

Build the Great Wall in either Athens or Byzantion. Problem solved.

I defeated them; hard as hell, though. I also had to fight off the hordes of camel archers in N. Africa... but yeah, Great Wall works wonders, at least against the European barbarians. Still have to fight the African ones.

Building the Great Wall also diverts the barbarians chiefly to Rome, leading to an earlier Roman collapse. This is both good and bad for various reasons.

 

[Walliard]

I'm having problems with my Arab game (600 AD). How do you deal with the pikemen in North Africa, as my Camels have no chance and only once in a blue moon retreat? Also, how do you reach Spain, since Al-Iskrandya and Al-Quds aren't exactly production powerhouses? This last one isn't exactly a strategy question but I'd still like to know why the UP of the Arabs doesn't affect their own cities. It makes no sense that the Arabs would erect temples in heathen cities and yet fail to even spread the faith in their own.

1. Research Engineering(you need the better roads anyway) and build Trebs.

2. Build a fort on one of the Suez canal tiles and bring boats through from Makkah.

 

[sk8er AG]

Magooh:
As Walliard said build a Fort on the hill and then build triremes and galleys in Makkah, Sana'a, Shiraz, and any other coastal city you build. Ive been skipping North Africa in my recent Arab games, since you get Al Qairah at the start and then send a galley with macemen for Tarabulus. But I've been unsuccessful on monarch so far. The thrid requirment is difficult.

 

[LukeUeda-Sarson]

I don't bother researching Engineering (at least not until much later) - since Gunpowder is so much better. IMO it should be the first serious tech you go for. Ignore the minor African cities initially; use your two swordsmen as sacrifices on Alexandria. (If you are patient, barbrians will weaken the minor cities for you, swoop in when the defenders are damaged) That gives you Egypt; and you only need the one city to get Carthage - which you found yourself with one of your two initial settlers. As others have said, build the Suez canal with a fort; Sana'a should be building naval units for you that you move up the Red Sea.

I've found that Shiraz is a very useful unit production city, but I find I can't afford to defend both it and something founded in Iraq, so no longer bother with founding something in the Baghdad area.

Cheers, Luke

 

[LukeUeda-Sarson]

Also who scripted the barbarians that come down from Europe to attack Greece in the early Christian era? Who do I send the flaming box of dog doodoo to?

No one no one regardless of skill can hold off 50+ horse archers and axemen arriving at once. They literally wiped me clean off the map.

If your cities are sited properly it's not all that difficult (albeit quite tedious at times) - you can channel them into attacking hill tiles that have forts on them, for instance, and if the tile in front is flat so your catapults can hit them as they come in, so much the better. I had to do this when Rome built the wall, and they all headed my way...

But certainly the Wall is easier.

Cheers, Luke

 

[Lone Wolf]

I easily manage to hold off the barbies as Greece - nothing cats/axes(phalanxes)/cats can't solve.

 

[pku_dwest]

It is easy for Greek to defend the barbarians from north.
For the UHV you should build Oracle then you can get the Crossbow very early. 1 is enough, it is too powerful to fear the barbarian melee from your border.
Question is how about the hordes of horse archer.
The key is that train more the 6 spearmen early, defend in the west forest of the hill near Byzantine(Consxxxxxxxx). Horse archers and chariots will attack your spearmen across the river. Although there may be more the 10 assaults from barbariens, your spearsmen would hold their position.
Notice the scale of your spear military is vitally important. If any spearman suffered some damage, then his power would decrease significantly and became more vulnerable.