Hmmm... In version 1.09 was bug- now using atlas you'll know, where place them.
Strategy discussion
- Thread starter Rhye
- Start date
Hmmm... In version 1.09 was bug- now using atlas you'll know, where place them.
Lord Apolon
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2002
- Messages
- 131
Background: so I just played a game as Arabia, which went well until the Turks stole... well, Turkey, when they spawned. I collapsed and began taking back my empire (which stretched from Egypt to India) but decided to switch to Mongolia instead. Shortly after the switch the now AI Arabia became extinct.
So my question, really, is how to do well as Mongolia. I had an okay start; I took Beijing on the second turn after the switch and Luoyang shortly after, then China collapsed and UHV #1 was fulfilled. It took a long time, however, to rebuild enough of an army to take the independendent cities, namely Hangzhou, the Tao and Confucian Holy City on the coast. I took Seoul and another city on the coast between Korea and Beijing, founded Macau, and the conquest of China was complete.
That's the obvious first step. From there I began having problems.. namely, what the next step was. I converted to Confucianism b/c of the Holy City, despite a strong Buddhist population in the native Mongolian cities. Civics were Hereditary Rule/Vassalage/Serfdom (the Chinese had horrendous infrastructure and obviously Mongolia had none)/Paganism, which became Theocracy eventually. Skipped OR because I didn't have Monotheism when the revolution came and the Mongols are military anyway.
So I turtled for a while, not really knowing what to do, while I stabilized and built infrastructure on the land and buildings in the towns. Once things started running smoothly I built up a lot of Keshiks and a few 'pults and fought a quick war with Russia to take Samarkand, which they had acquired somehow. Quick and easy. At the same time I finished the Silk Road. This was already after 1500, so UHV #2 was failed, although I had no hopes there anyway.
Samarkand didn't have much breathing room because of worthless Turkish cities east of the Caspian, which ate up almost all of its cultural radius. So after some more keshiks and trebs arrived I blitzed Turkey, probably around 1600. Burned 3 worthless cities the first turn, getting Sam the space it needed. After that, though, things got rough, because the Turks had janissaries, knights, and a lot of cannons. They halted my advance north of the Caspian, but my goal was finished; Samarkand had space, and I could prepare for the next wars: either a full-scale invasion of Japan, for which the navy was already waiting, or an attack on the independent lands. Persia, India, and most of the Middle East were still independent (because the AI still doesn't seem to attack the independents), although Egypt re-emerged in 1600.
But it was not to be. After the offensive failed, I quickly degrated from Stable to Unstable, then to Collapsing. I'm not quite sure why--income was positive, science rate was decent, lots of luxuries, only one unhappy city (Hangzhou grows too quickly for its own good!). Did I overextend myself? My Arabian empire had been larger and fairly stable until the Turks came. Was it because of losing units, most of which were high level? (Vassalage + Theocracy + Barracks + Ger = 11 base XP for Keshiks, 13 in Khanbaliq because of a General).. almost all of my units were level 3 or higher. Did losing five or six of these in a turn send me plummeting? What else could it be?
In 1665, Civil War broke out in Mongolia. I spawned some hostile swordsmen outside Karakoron (which was my one city, not Khanbaliq, where I had moved the palace, interestingly) in the WB, and that was the end of it. Didn't feel like rebuilding an only middling empire.
And, more importantly, what do you recommend to do as Mongolia after the conquest of China? I'd guess I shouldn't have turtled, and perhaps have blitzed Japan early on, even though the land would only be a pain to hold onto. But eventually to create a semi-historical Mongolia you have to move west... what should I have done instead to create a sprawling Old World empire which could have stood the test of time and rocked Russia to its foundations?
Any tips would be welcome.. I don't blame the AI as much for always doing badly with Mongolia when I can't do better myself. At least I bothered to invade China, unlike the AI!
Thanks!
So my question, really, is how to do well as Mongolia. I had an okay start; I took Beijing on the second turn after the switch and Luoyang shortly after, then China collapsed and UHV #1 was fulfilled. It took a long time, however, to rebuild enough of an army to take the independendent cities, namely Hangzhou, the Tao and Confucian Holy City on the coast. I took Seoul and another city on the coast between Korea and Beijing, founded Macau, and the conquest of China was complete.
That's the obvious first step. From there I began having problems.. namely, what the next step was. I converted to Confucianism b/c of the Holy City, despite a strong Buddhist population in the native Mongolian cities. Civics were Hereditary Rule/Vassalage/Serfdom (the Chinese had horrendous infrastructure and obviously Mongolia had none)/Paganism, which became Theocracy eventually. Skipped OR because I didn't have Monotheism when the revolution came and the Mongols are military anyway.
So I turtled for a while, not really knowing what to do, while I stabilized and built infrastructure on the land and buildings in the towns. Once things started running smoothly I built up a lot of Keshiks and a few 'pults and fought a quick war with Russia to take Samarkand, which they had acquired somehow. Quick and easy. At the same time I finished the Silk Road. This was already after 1500, so UHV #2 was failed, although I had no hopes there anyway.
Samarkand didn't have much breathing room because of worthless Turkish cities east of the Caspian, which ate up almost all of its cultural radius. So after some more keshiks and trebs arrived I blitzed Turkey, probably around 1600. Burned 3 worthless cities the first turn, getting Sam the space it needed. After that, though, things got rough, because the Turks had janissaries, knights, and a lot of cannons. They halted my advance north of the Caspian, but my goal was finished; Samarkand had space, and I could prepare for the next wars: either a full-scale invasion of Japan, for which the navy was already waiting, or an attack on the independent lands. Persia, India, and most of the Middle East were still independent (because the AI still doesn't seem to attack the independents), although Egypt re-emerged in 1600.
But it was not to be. After the offensive failed, I quickly degrated from Stable to Unstable, then to Collapsing. I'm not quite sure why--income was positive, science rate was decent, lots of luxuries, only one unhappy city (Hangzhou grows too quickly for its own good!). Did I overextend myself? My Arabian empire had been larger and fairly stable until the Turks came. Was it because of losing units, most of which were high level? (Vassalage + Theocracy + Barracks + Ger = 11 base XP for Keshiks, 13 in Khanbaliq because of a General).. almost all of my units were level 3 or higher. Did losing five or six of these in a turn send me plummeting? What else could it be?
In 1665, Civil War broke out in Mongolia. I spawned some hostile swordsmen outside Karakoron (which was my one city, not Khanbaliq, where I had moved the palace, interestingly) in the WB, and that was the end of it. Didn't feel like rebuilding an only middling empire.
And, more importantly, what do you recommend to do as Mongolia after the conquest of China? I'd guess I shouldn't have turtled, and perhaps have blitzed Japan early on, even though the land would only be a pain to hold onto. But eventually to create a semi-historical Mongolia you have to move west... what should I have done instead to create a sprawling Old World empire which could have stood the test of time and rocked Russia to its foundations?
Any tips would be welcome.. I don't blame the AI as much for always doing badly with Mongolia when I can't do better myself. At least I bothered to invade China, unlike the AI!
Thanks!Won a cultural victory as Rome (easy) and Time victories as the Eygptians (took two tries) and Chinese (very easy to take out India and have Mongol cities cultural flip to me). No luck with the Greeks though. Too much rebellion and always at exactly the wrong time. Lost my third founded city to the Romans when they spawned which was a real speed bump in my early game. Later after kicking their ass, I had constant revolts by Turkish, Roman and Russian cities. Never did completly do away with Russia (I already had their oil) as I was too busy in the middle east maintianing control of the holy cities. Any way to reduce the lielyhood of cities revolting back to their previously eliminated owner?
which version were you playing?
Mercenary82
King
Just won this on monarch level, RFCW v119. This is one of the harder UHV's in my opinion, and took me several tries to get it, here's how it goes.
First off we should settle 1 tile North to get the horse, stone, marble, and copper all in range of the capital, giving it great production later on. Your early research order should be: Animal husbandry, mining, masonry, mysticism, then beelining to literature. Start building a worker and research animal husbandry right away, we need war chariots ASAP. When the worker is complete, send it directly 1 tile east of the captial where the horses will appear and have it build a road, then a pasture once AH is researched and road is complete. The capital should be building warriors until then, and have the worker build a farm on the wheat, then a quarry on the stone, then the marble.
Immediatley begin working the pasture once the capital is size 2, and begin building 2 war chariots. Once the first is complete, pass through independent territory, and send it straight to Babylon, it will only have a warrior guarding it. Capture Babylon, and use a couple warriors to guard it, and raze Nineveh if they buit it yet. Your second war chariot should be on its way to babylon also, once both are healed, send them towards Delhi, it too will only be guarded by a couple warriors if you attack quick enough. You should be building the Pyramids in Niwt-Rst after building the 2 war chariots, and building Stonehenge in Babylon. After taking Delhi, make peace with India, hook the marble up there, and begin building the Temple of Artemis in Delhi.
Once Niwt-Rst finishes the Pyramids, have it build a 3-4 more war chariots, and begin a settler in Babylon as soon as stonehenge is complete. Now capture Jerusalem, have it work the forrest, and start on the Great Lighthouse. Build the GL in the capital as soon as you get Literature, then you can also squeeze the Oracle and Parthenon in as well.
Anyway, with Delhi, Babylon, and Jerusalem in your hands early enough its quite easy to get the 5000 culture goal, just be ready to hold the Camel Archers and Impis off until 450 AD. Using this strategy, I had 7288 culture by year 450 AD.
First off we should settle 1 tile North to get the horse, stone, marble, and copper all in range of the capital, giving it great production later on. Your early research order should be: Animal husbandry, mining, masonry, mysticism, then beelining to literature. Start building a worker and research animal husbandry right away, we need war chariots ASAP. When the worker is complete, send it directly 1 tile east of the captial where the horses will appear and have it build a road, then a pasture once AH is researched and road is complete. The capital should be building warriors until then, and have the worker build a farm on the wheat, then a quarry on the stone, then the marble.
Immediatley begin working the pasture once the capital is size 2, and begin building 2 war chariots. Once the first is complete, pass through independent territory, and send it straight to Babylon, it will only have a warrior guarding it. Capture Babylon, and use a couple warriors to guard it, and raze Nineveh if they buit it yet. Your second war chariot should be on its way to babylon also, once both are healed, send them towards Delhi, it too will only be guarded by a couple warriors if you attack quick enough. You should be building the Pyramids in Niwt-Rst after building the 2 war chariots, and building Stonehenge in Babylon. After taking Delhi, make peace with India, hook the marble up there, and begin building the Temple of Artemis in Delhi.
Once Niwt-Rst finishes the Pyramids, have it build a 3-4 more war chariots, and begin a settler in Babylon as soon as stonehenge is complete. Now capture Jerusalem, have it work the forrest, and start on the Great Lighthouse. Build the GL in the capital as soon as you get Literature, then you can also squeeze the Oracle and Parthenon in as well.
Anyway, with Delhi, Babylon, and Jerusalem in your hands early enough its quite easy to get the 5000 culture goal, just be ready to hold the Camel Archers and Impis off until 450 AD. Using this strategy, I had 7288 culture by year 450 AD.
fearuin
Born to be Warlord
Interesting conquest strategy to get UHV! I play Vanilla, so instead of Babylon, I'm suppoused to go for Persepolis? Babylon is usually barb. Anyway, my questions are:
1.- Did you founded/conquered more cities?
2.- Didn't you had some manteinance problems? Delhi is a little far away, I guess, Babylon too.
1.- Did you founded/conquered more cities?
2.- Didn't you had some manteinance problems? Delhi is a little far away, I guess, Babylon too.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
I think that this strat actually would work better on Vanilla than Warlords. He goes for Babylon and Delhi because the barb cities are better protected and he can't take them immediately. Forget Persepolis. If you attack the Persians, they will shred you into mincemeat. Besides, they arrive too late to make a difference to the UHV.
As I note on my own Strategy Thread (shameless plug
), you get five (maybe six, I'm never sure) free shots at the barbs. Now the key difference between RFC and RFCW is that Babylon and Jerusalem are barb in vanilla. This is a tactic I refined as the Greeks but, in playing with around, it seems to work fine for the Egyptians too. Better actually, because the Alex is in a race with the clock to get the job done before Cyrus appears.Get out two chariots and take them down. Attack the archers first. There should be three in Jerusalem, one in Babylon and one in Sur. That's five shots. Get them first. Then keep working your way through the barb cities. There's no rush. The pillage money is huge. You should get workers too.
There are too many cities here. Shushan and Sur should be razed. In particular, Shushan is a Persian city. Deny it to them! Take out Shushan and Ur, then move up to towards Ninevah and Hattusas. Instant empire!
I tried this to the point where I took my first city, Babylon. I see that Nineveh hadn't appeared by this time. Don't worry, it will.
You'll also find an Egypt strat on that thread too, one which works fine in Vanilla. For reasons I explain there, your next tech after Masonry should be Pottery.
NitroJay
Warlord
Wow, that Egypt strategy is just amazing! I play Egypt alot, and I've never thought about pursuing the UHV in this way! Great job, Mercenary 82, for thinking outside the box!
I just gave your strategy a shot myself, it didn't quite go as well though, at first... My invasion into Babylonia stalled, I think I didn't get my chariots built quick enough... I restarted and followed your plan EXACTLY (in the beginning) and was able to conquer Babylon (and Jerusalem + other independants) to win the UHV. Didn't need to go to India. The spread of Judaism to all of the formerly barb cities in addition to the Pyramids/Stonehenge/Lighthouse combo got me the culture victories easy. Developing my cities further, forgoing building into Africa, gave me enough research to get to Literature and rush build the Great Library with a held over GE via the pyramids...
EXCELLENT stragtegy! A great un-historical way to win a historical victory... Loved it! Thanks!
I just gave your strategy a shot myself, it didn't quite go as well though, at first... My invasion into Babylonia stalled, I think I didn't get my chariots built quick enough... I restarted and followed your plan EXACTLY (in the beginning) and was able to conquer Babylon (and Jerusalem + other independants) to win the UHV. Didn't need to go to India. The spread of Judaism to all of the formerly barb cities in addition to the Pyramids/Stonehenge/Lighthouse combo got me the culture victories easy. Developing my cities further, forgoing building into Africa, gave me enough research to get to Literature and rush build the Great Library with a held over GE via the pyramids...
EXCELLENT stragtegy! A great un-historical way to win a historical victory... Loved it! Thanks!
Mercenary82
King
My strategy works a little different in vanilla due to the better defended barb cities. Persia comes too late, and is to strong, so don't fight them. You just need to take the barb cities with your free wins ( first 5 barb fights are guaranteed to win), Try to make sure you capture Babylon at least, then you may have to wait for Greece or Persia to attack the other cities and weaken them before you capture/ raze them with chariots, this means you usually won't be able to take Delhi Early on though.
As for maintenance costs, yes they get a little high, but you can make up for it by using the gold from conquered/ razed cities, you should raze Shushan, Sur, Hattusas, and Gordium, and hire the war chariots, and a couple promoted warriors out as mercs before Rome, Japan, and Carthage spawns.
Even doing this your economy may stagnate, but you just need to hold on till alphabet, then build research to get literature and trade for techs that you missed.
As for cities I conquered/ founded, I ended up only building 2 cities, my capital 1 tile north of starting position, and Per Wadjet using a settler from Babylon ( mainly just to chop the GL since Niwt-Rst had to build a few axes and spears) the other cities I had were Babylon, Jerusalem, and Delhi.
Taking Delhi also has the advantage of giving you more time to get the Oracle, they almost always go for it early on.
As for being historical, to me this is sort of historical as Egypt did try to expand into the middle east, (the battle of Kadesh) I just took it a little further by taking Babylon and Delhi.
Abgeweit, your strategy also looks interesting, I didnt think a peacful UHV was possible, I'll have to try it!
As for maintenance costs, yes they get a little high, but you can make up for it by using the gold from conquered/ razed cities, you should raze Shushan, Sur, Hattusas, and Gordium, and hire the war chariots, and a couple promoted warriors out as mercs before Rome, Japan, and Carthage spawns.
Even doing this your economy may stagnate, but you just need to hold on till alphabet, then build research to get literature and trade for techs that you missed.
As for cities I conquered/ founded, I ended up only building 2 cities, my capital 1 tile north of starting position, and Per Wadjet using a settler from Babylon ( mainly just to chop the GL since Niwt-Rst had to build a few axes and spears) the other cities I had were Babylon, Jerusalem, and Delhi.
Taking Delhi also has the advantage of giving you more time to get the Oracle, they almost always go for it early on.
As for being historical, to me this is sort of historical as Egypt did try to expand into the middle east, (the battle of Kadesh) I just took it a little further by taking Babylon and Delhi.
Abgeweit, your strategy also looks interesting, I didnt think a peacful UHV was possible, I'll have to try it!
NitroJay
Warlord
Oh yeah, I've consistantly won a UHV with Egypt peacefully, it's not too difficult... Just get started on wonders early (pyramids especially) and make sure you found Judaism before it auto-founds...
I'm loving this new approach though! I just played another game and, for the first time, I have an Egypt that is a military powerhouse... I've made a vassal of Carthage and Mali, and conquered Babylon, Arabia, Persia, Turkey, and India... This is KILLING me! I love it!!! Kudos again to you, Mercenary 82, for opening up a whole new way of looking at Egypt!!!
I'm loving this new approach though! I just played another game and, for the first time, I have an Egypt that is a military powerhouse... I've made a vassal of Carthage and Mali, and conquered Babylon, Arabia, Persia, Turkey, and India... This is KILLING me! I love it!!! Kudos again to you, Mercenary 82, for opening up a whole new way of looking at Egypt!!!
Mercenary82
King
Yeah Egypt is definitely in a strong position to be a military powerhouse if you want to just use my early conquest strategy and avoid going for the UHV.
One other thing I forgot to mention is the only real military threat to the UHV, the Persians. You absolutely must not aggravate Cyrus at all early on, controlling Babylon and Delhi will give you at least -2 for close borders.
To counter this, you must give in to any demand he makes, give him open borders, and try to get the +4 trade relations are forthright bonus. To get this before alphabet, capture Samarkand after Cyrus spawns, and gift it to him. Even doing all this he may still declare war eventually, but usually it will be later on (and when he is no longer a threat due to barb HA's) if relations are good.
One other thing I forgot to mention is the only real military threat to the UHV, the Persians. You absolutely must not aggravate Cyrus at all early on, controlling Babylon and Delhi will give you at least -2 for close borders.
To counter this, you must give in to any demand he makes, give him open borders, and try to get the +4 trade relations are forthright bonus. To get this before alphabet, capture Samarkand after Cyrus spawns, and gift it to him. Even doing all this he may still declare war eventually, but usually it will be later on (and when he is no longer a threat due to barb HA's) if relations are good.
werttrew
Professor
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2004
- Messages
- 111
Mali Strategy Guide
Goal one: 1st in gold by 1300 AD
Goal two: 5000 gold by 1500 AD
Goal three: 20,000 gold by 1700 AD
Benchmarks:
By 1300, I had about 1400 gold, +85 a turn.
By 1400, I had about 2350, +120.
By 1450, I had about 2600, +145.
By 1500, I had about 5300, +185.
By 1550, I had about 8000, +250.
By 1600, I had about 11,500, +285.
By 1650, I had about 15,500, +360.
1700 AD: 20136 gold, +468.
Beginning (Turn 189/980 AD) to 1300 AD
I go slavery/monarch on the first turn. The skirmishers I send with the settlers to guard founded cities (three with Timbuktu).
I found Timbuktu one grid southeast of the starting spot, Accra directly south of Timbuktu on the coast, and Djenne to the west-southwest of Timbuktu, just northeast of the gems spot, not on the coast.
Builds:
Timbuktu goes Aqueduct, Market, Mint, all slave rushed.
Djenne goes scout, settler, settler, market. Djenne uses two floodplains while Timbuktu is growing, but eventually just goes to one. The scout I send northeast to find Egypt, Greece, Rome, Carthage, depending whos still around, of course
Accra goes fishing boat, trireme, trireme, lighthouse, galley, then caravel, then galley. I slave rush whenever I can.
Science:
Science at 100 percent. Get fishingsailingcompass--optics, then slide science to zero. Later on Ill bargain and trade for Calendar, Code of Laws, Civil Service and Paper, but Ill leave my science at zero percent for the rest of the game. Ill pick up Feudalism and Engineering pretty easily too from trades.
Tactics:
I have the three workers build five cottages around Timbuktu, then mine the gold, then the ivory north of Accra, then depending on how far culture spreads, the other two floodplains and the gems. Ivory is the most valued resource, so I develop it as soon as I can.
I emphasize growth in Timbuktu and slave rush the aqueduct, market, and mint as soon as I can. I then let Timbuktu grow to a six and start using merchants. With enough trading for health bonuses, I was able to get Timbuktu to a size 8 with two merchants. Ill plant three of my eventual great merchants in Timbuktu; the last one I used for banking.
Djennes first settler goes east to found Zaria, northeast of the last ivory and just within range of the cows to the east. Zaria goes skirmisher-barracks-military unit ad nauseum.
I upgrade my trireme to caravel when I can and go north to gain contacts with Western Europe and through the Mediterranean to pick up any other missing contacts (like Turkey or Arabia). Vikings, French, English, and Carthage seemed to be the most affable traders. I would trade Divine Right and Theology to catch up to most of the civs minor techs and gain some gold too.
In most times Ive played Ive been able to avoid war by rolling over every time a civ begs/demands something. Losing 110 gold here or there seems more cost effective than a protracted war, which I got caught in one version with Carthage that ended up losing me considerably more (in upgrades and slave rushes). Spain seems particularly bellicose, so I offer them gifts and play nice.
Trading the crab resource for wheat is effective not only for stability but because the granaries in all the cities make wheat more health-effective than crab. I keep one ivory at all times, but trade the rest as soon as I can for health bonuses and gold.
I usually would end up with Islam in my cities, but I never switched to an official religion. Not only is an extra turn of anarchy a pain, but I wanted to make no civ any more upset with me than I absolutely had toI never went to war once in my winning game.
1300 to 1500 AD
Timbuktu builds walls-castle and eventually Grocer, once I got the tech. Building a barracks is also a worthwhile investment, as trained mercenaries can yield good money.
While one caravel tours Europe, the other goes under South America and establishes contact with Japan/China/India/Persia and complete the circumnavigation. The circumnavigation bonus comes in handing not only for selling maps but for moving galleys quickly down Africas coast to found cities or reinforce them with longbowmen. After the circumnavigation the caravels also contact Aztecs, Incas, and Mongolians, then explore Australian and New World coastline (good for selling maps later).
I have a lot of Impis around Zaria, so I keep a couple of longbowmen around there (Feudalism is usually pretty easy to trade for). They build a lot of explorers, too, as explorers are a popular mercenary hireI could usually have three or four hired out at the same time.
Around 1430 I gamble with 900 gold and a couple of techs to pick up guilds from the Vikings. This paid off in the long run since with a grocer in Timbuktu I was able to make much more, but it was nip and tuck to get to 1500 with 5000 gold.
Because around 1550 AD Kongo pops up in the bottom west of Africa and starts building up an army of Impis, I pre-empt them by planting a settler there. The city never really amounts to much, but it brings in a fish bonus and it can pay off with a harbor as well.
1500-1700
I got lucky and India traded guilds for civil service. I switch to bureaucracy right awaythe last anarchy Ill have. I found a city in the far southeast corner of Africa, right where gold/sugar/copper/gems are accessible. I built a couple of skirmishers and a work boat here before I started with a workerImpis are a bear. I usually have to slave rush a skirmisher and keep it pretty well fortified.
The golden age from 1505-1545 is really sweet, and I emphasize commerce as much as I can to take advantage of it.
Between 1550-1600 I sent a couple more settlers to found cities in South Africa, but they never really got anywhere by 1700, so they probably werent worth the bother except to create a lot of workers. Accra builds markets/Grocers/settlers as needed; I put the Triumphal Arch in Timbuktu to use by building military unitswar elephants and explorers, which I promptly put on the mercenary market.
At 1600 I took another risk and spent a bit (170/Drama/World map) to pick up Paper from the Indians. I then was able to barter for Inca maps, which I promptly sold to other civs.
At 1650 I used my last Great Merchant to find banking. I trade banking for gunpowder and philosophy with other civs, then sell what techs I can to other civs. (By this point, selling Guilds to Aztecs for 10 gold is a bargain). I slave Timbuktu down to 5 for a bank, and as it grows I have it take all the floodplains from Djenne and Zaria. I no longer bother with specialists but throw everything into commerce. I traded away every resource I could spare and just made the 20,000 goal.
Some mistakes I made in earlier attempts:
*I went too far along in science before switching to 0 percent science (I only went to Optics in my winning game)
*I switched to Mercantilism (the foreign trade routes are too valuable)
*I sent Skirmishers out exploring, when they should have just been keeping Timbuktu happy.
*I didnt bother with building Castles (again, the extra trade route in Timbuktu is very nice).
*I sent Great Merchants to foreign countries (better to plug all but maybe the last one in Timbuktumore gold in the long run)
*I held out on selling maps too late (as soon as a civ picked up paper, Id sell them my maps)
Goal one: 1st in gold by 1300 AD
Goal two: 5000 gold by 1500 AD
Goal three: 20,000 gold by 1700 AD
Benchmarks:
By 1300, I had about 1400 gold, +85 a turn.
By 1400, I had about 2350, +120.
By 1450, I had about 2600, +145.
By 1500, I had about 5300, +185.
By 1550, I had about 8000, +250.
By 1600, I had about 11,500, +285.
By 1650, I had about 15,500, +360.
1700 AD: 20136 gold, +468.
Beginning (Turn 189/980 AD) to 1300 AD
I go slavery/monarch on the first turn. The skirmishers I send with the settlers to guard founded cities (three with Timbuktu).
I found Timbuktu one grid southeast of the starting spot, Accra directly south of Timbuktu on the coast, and Djenne to the west-southwest of Timbuktu, just northeast of the gems spot, not on the coast.
Builds:
Timbuktu goes Aqueduct, Market, Mint, all slave rushed.
Djenne goes scout, settler, settler, market. Djenne uses two floodplains while Timbuktu is growing, but eventually just goes to one. The scout I send northeast to find Egypt, Greece, Rome, Carthage, depending whos still around, of course
Accra goes fishing boat, trireme, trireme, lighthouse, galley, then caravel, then galley. I slave rush whenever I can.
Science:
Science at 100 percent. Get fishingsailingcompass--optics, then slide science to zero. Later on Ill bargain and trade for Calendar, Code of Laws, Civil Service and Paper, but Ill leave my science at zero percent for the rest of the game. Ill pick up Feudalism and Engineering pretty easily too from trades.
Tactics:
I have the three workers build five cottages around Timbuktu, then mine the gold, then the ivory north of Accra, then depending on how far culture spreads, the other two floodplains and the gems. Ivory is the most valued resource, so I develop it as soon as I can.
I emphasize growth in Timbuktu and slave rush the aqueduct, market, and mint as soon as I can. I then let Timbuktu grow to a six and start using merchants. With enough trading for health bonuses, I was able to get Timbuktu to a size 8 with two merchants. Ill plant three of my eventual great merchants in Timbuktu; the last one I used for banking.
Djennes first settler goes east to found Zaria, northeast of the last ivory and just within range of the cows to the east. Zaria goes skirmisher-barracks-military unit ad nauseum.
I upgrade my trireme to caravel when I can and go north to gain contacts with Western Europe and through the Mediterranean to pick up any other missing contacts (like Turkey or Arabia). Vikings, French, English, and Carthage seemed to be the most affable traders. I would trade Divine Right and Theology to catch up to most of the civs minor techs and gain some gold too.
In most times Ive played Ive been able to avoid war by rolling over every time a civ begs/demands something. Losing 110 gold here or there seems more cost effective than a protracted war, which I got caught in one version with Carthage that ended up losing me considerably more (in upgrades and slave rushes). Spain seems particularly bellicose, so I offer them gifts and play nice.
Trading the crab resource for wheat is effective not only for stability but because the granaries in all the cities make wheat more health-effective than crab. I keep one ivory at all times, but trade the rest as soon as I can for health bonuses and gold.
I usually would end up with Islam in my cities, but I never switched to an official religion. Not only is an extra turn of anarchy a pain, but I wanted to make no civ any more upset with me than I absolutely had toI never went to war once in my winning game.
1300 to 1500 AD
Timbuktu builds walls-castle and eventually Grocer, once I got the tech. Building a barracks is also a worthwhile investment, as trained mercenaries can yield good money.
While one caravel tours Europe, the other goes under South America and establishes contact with Japan/China/India/Persia and complete the circumnavigation. The circumnavigation bonus comes in handing not only for selling maps but for moving galleys quickly down Africas coast to found cities or reinforce them with longbowmen. After the circumnavigation the caravels also contact Aztecs, Incas, and Mongolians, then explore Australian and New World coastline (good for selling maps later).
I have a lot of Impis around Zaria, so I keep a couple of longbowmen around there (Feudalism is usually pretty easy to trade for). They build a lot of explorers, too, as explorers are a popular mercenary hireI could usually have three or four hired out at the same time.
Around 1430 I gamble with 900 gold and a couple of techs to pick up guilds from the Vikings. This paid off in the long run since with a grocer in Timbuktu I was able to make much more, but it was nip and tuck to get to 1500 with 5000 gold.
Because around 1550 AD Kongo pops up in the bottom west of Africa and starts building up an army of Impis, I pre-empt them by planting a settler there. The city never really amounts to much, but it brings in a fish bonus and it can pay off with a harbor as well.
1500-1700
I got lucky and India traded guilds for civil service. I switch to bureaucracy right awaythe last anarchy Ill have. I found a city in the far southeast corner of Africa, right where gold/sugar/copper/gems are accessible. I built a couple of skirmishers and a work boat here before I started with a workerImpis are a bear. I usually have to slave rush a skirmisher and keep it pretty well fortified.
The golden age from 1505-1545 is really sweet, and I emphasize commerce as much as I can to take advantage of it.
Between 1550-1600 I sent a couple more settlers to found cities in South Africa, but they never really got anywhere by 1700, so they probably werent worth the bother except to create a lot of workers. Accra builds markets/Grocers/settlers as needed; I put the Triumphal Arch in Timbuktu to use by building military unitswar elephants and explorers, which I promptly put on the mercenary market.
At 1600 I took another risk and spent a bit (170/Drama/World map) to pick up Paper from the Indians. I then was able to barter for Inca maps, which I promptly sold to other civs.
At 1650 I used my last Great Merchant to find banking. I trade banking for gunpowder and philosophy with other civs, then sell what techs I can to other civs. (By this point, selling Guilds to Aztecs for 10 gold is a bargain). I slave Timbuktu down to 5 for a bank, and as it grows I have it take all the floodplains from Djenne and Zaria. I no longer bother with specialists but throw everything into commerce. I traded away every resource I could spare and just made the 20,000 goal.
Some mistakes I made in earlier attempts:
*I went too far along in science before switching to 0 percent science (I only went to Optics in my winning game)
*I switched to Mercantilism (the foreign trade routes are too valuable)
*I sent Skirmishers out exploring, when they should have just been keeping Timbuktu happy.
*I didnt bother with building Castles (again, the extra trade route in Timbuktu is very nice).
*I sent Great Merchants to foreign countries (better to plug all but maybe the last one in Timbuktumore gold in the long run)
*I held out on selling maps too late (as soon as a civ picked up paper, Id sell them my maps)
Mercenary82
King
Babylon conquest Victory.
This one was pretty cheesy, but I''l share how I got a conquest victory with Babylon.
My plan was to kill Egypt, India, Greece, and China before anyone has a chance to spawn. This also includes taking the Independent cities of Yerushalym, Sur, Shushan, and Afrosiab (Samarkand).
I settled at Ashur ( 1 tile NE of start) this has better early production, health, and will flip Shushan Much sooner. Build warriors until we get archery , research is hunting and archery, and thats it, you won't need anymore techs.
You should have archery, around the same time as shushan flips, do not disband it, we need this city. Ashur should be size 2 around now, have 1 citizen work the forrset hill plain, and have shushan only work the forrest. Now set both cities to build continus Bowmen, send your first 3 at Egypt.
You will have to declare on Independents to pass through, ignore their units and cities for now, attack and raze Egypt's only city, it should have only a warrior or 2 defenders, so you'll only lose an archer or 2. You then should attack India with your next 3 archers, also send the next 3 built, 1 by 1. keep delhi and raze his other city if he built it yet, Produce archers in Delhi as well.
Babylon's Asharittu bowman have the ability to pass through jungle, we will attack china that way. Your first group of three healed archers, and all archers built in Delhi will head east through the India jungles, then North through the hills towards Beijing if done fast enough, they will only have warriors also, same deal here, raze Beijing, and his other city near the coast.
At the same time you should be sending your next 8 archers in a stack from Ashur and Shushan, they need to arrive within a few turns of Greeces spawn. have archers built there continue heading that way 1 by 1 just in case. Try to wait till their phalanxes are outside before declaring war, you usually still have to face 1 fortified in athens, with a couple warriors, but 8 is usually enough to kill them.
Next, taking out the independent cities which is easy enough, just throw stacks of archers in 3 or more at each one till their dead, you only need to take Sur, Yerushalyim, and Samarkand, and you get a conquest victory before Persia spawns!
This one was pretty cheesy, but I''l share how I got a conquest victory with Babylon.
My plan was to kill Egypt, India, Greece, and China before anyone has a chance to spawn. This also includes taking the Independent cities of Yerushalym, Sur, Shushan, and Afrosiab (Samarkand).
I settled at Ashur ( 1 tile NE of start) this has better early production, health, and will flip Shushan Much sooner. Build warriors until we get archery , research is hunting and archery, and thats it, you won't need anymore techs.
You should have archery, around the same time as shushan flips, do not disband it, we need this city. Ashur should be size 2 around now, have 1 citizen work the forrset hill plain, and have shushan only work the forrest. Now set both cities to build continus Bowmen, send your first 3 at Egypt.
You will have to declare on Independents to pass through, ignore their units and cities for now, attack and raze Egypt's only city, it should have only a warrior or 2 defenders, so you'll only lose an archer or 2. You then should attack India with your next 3 archers, also send the next 3 built, 1 by 1. keep delhi and raze his other city if he built it yet, Produce archers in Delhi as well.
Babylon's Asharittu bowman have the ability to pass through jungle, we will attack china that way. Your first group of three healed archers, and all archers built in Delhi will head east through the India jungles, then North through the hills towards Beijing if done fast enough, they will only have warriors also, same deal here, raze Beijing, and his other city near the coast.
At the same time you should be sending your next 8 archers in a stack from Ashur and Shushan, they need to arrive within a few turns of Greeces spawn. have archers built there continue heading that way 1 by 1 just in case. Try to wait till their phalanxes are outside before declaring war, you usually still have to face 1 fortified in athens, with a couple warriors, but 8 is usually enough to kill them.
Next, taking out the independent cities which is easy enough, just throw stacks of archers in 3 or more at each one till their dead, you only need to take Sur, Yerushalyim, and Samarkand, and you get a conquest victory before Persia spawns!
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Quite cool! I have played this a few times.
It is easy enough to take out Egypt, India, China and the city states. Greece is a bit of a harder nut to crack, though, and I find that playing it exactly as suggested is pretty iffy. I've made a slight variant which seems to pretty much guarantee victory.
I send four warriors and two archers to Egypt. That's more than enough to take out Niwt-Rst. Actually six warriors would probably do it, but they'll get attacked by the Jews. They'll leave you alone if you have an archer escort though (perhaps one archer and six warriors would be best). You'll get a worker out of this. Escort it back home, along with the wounded soldiers. This means that one of the archers must stay out of the fighting.
In the meantime, continue to pump out archers back home. When you have about seven, quit that and start training warriors again. Keep researching to Bronze Working. Use your worker to the connect the copper. With the pillage money from Niwt-Rst and Delhi, you can upgrade four warriors. Using your new axemen, you can pillage the independent cities to get you enough to upgrade a couple more and a bankroll which will carry you through until you get to China. Add a couple of newly-trained axes to the crew and you'll have a fine welcoming party for the Greeks, especially as you'll probably have a Great General too. CRII and CRIII axes are such fun.
Mercenary82
King
Axemen can't cut through the jungle to hit china as fast as bowmen can, I usually reach China with a stack of bowmen around when Greece spawns, before China has any cats built yet.
Psyringe
Scout
Hi there,
I just browsed the thread and it seems that the strategy I used for my Egyptian Historical Victory two hours ago is not as obvious as I thought, so I thought I'd write the basics down.
Note: I don't claim that this is a brilliant, or even good, strategy. I simply don't have enough experience with RFC to evaluate it on that level. This was only my second RFC game after all, and it happened to run smoothly. I'm curious how the more experienced Egypt players rate the strategy. I played RFCW 1.19 on Monarch difficulty btw.
Key points:
1. Settle (i.e. found Niwt-rst) where you start.
2. Research Mysticism, then Masonry
3. While you're doing that, build one settler and one worker, and a warrior or two. The warrior's aren't really necessary, but they help making contact with other civs.
4. Send the settler to found Per-Wadjet in the northwest, one tile left of the wheat resource. That way it lies on the coast, has access to the wheat, fishes and three forest squares, and is connected to the capital by the Nile.
5. Use the worker to build a quarry on the stone resource. No need for roads here because the Nile connects most important tiles, instead of building roads move on to improve the marble and wheat tiles.
6. Build Stonehenge in Niwt-rst, followed by the Pyramids. It shouldn't be difficult to get those wonders, the few other AIs that are on the map at this time are still focused on expansion or building up an army.
7. Build the Great Lighthouse in Per-Wadjet. At first it will seem as it will never finish because the AI will only work the food tiles. Fine tune the production and switch to working the forest tiles, taking in account short periods of starvation, as long as it doesn't cost you population.
8. Keep an eye on your total culture. If you haven't dawdled, you should make the 500 culture points to fulfill your first objective.
9. Research Polytheism, Animal Husbandry, Writing, Alphabet and Literature next.
10. Build Libraries in both cities. Build the Parthenon in in Niwt-rst (not essential, but helpful). I also built the the Temple of Artemis in Per-Wadjet, but I'm not sure whether that's the best thing to do.
11. Pasture the horses next to Niwt-rst once they appear, to enhance the production capacity of your capital.
12. Somewhere in between, I also built three war chariots. They werent' actually useful though. Don't try to attack anybody, you're pathetically weak, but fortunately no ither civ can reach you (apart from the Carthaginians, but even these will be far away). Especially, don't invade Yerushalayim. As an independent city, Yerushalayim acts as a nice buffer between you and Babylon or Greece. Yerushalayim is your shield, because it is defended with archers, which we don't bother to build, we don't even have the technology.
13. Having Alphabet, you can go tech shoping with the other civs. It might be worthwile to get Pottery, Archery and especially Mining / Bronze Working. However, don't trade wonder technologies away until you're sure you'll get the wonder anyways (which is easy to estimate since no one can get a Great Engineer at this time except perhaps yourself). Note: You should get contact to Babylon and Greece when your scouting warriors (or your northern city) see one of their units across the city. Contact to Carthage and Rome can be made easily by sending a work boat into the Mediterranean. You want to build a workboat anyways to utilize the fish resource near Per-Wadjet, it doesn't hurt to send it westward first.
14. Build the Great Library in Niwt-rst. This completes the third objective for the HV, so that only the second objective remains. The Triumphal Arch will appear in your capital, starting a Golden Age. If you have successfully traded for Bronze Working, hook up the Copper resource and build two or three axemen and the same amount of spearmen there (using the production bonus from the arch). You'll need some protection later on. You can also try to build the Leaning Tower in Niwt-rst, but it's a bit of a gamble.
15. You now have to get 5000 culture by turn 143. No matter how many wonders you build, you won't make it with only two cities. But we're in an excellent position to get lots of culture with another method. Research Mathematics, then Music.
16. About now, your second Great Person should roll in (we accumulated a lot of GP bonuses in our capital). Chances are that it's either a scientist or an artist (chances for an artist are higher if you built the Leaning Tower). If you get an artist, you've won. Let it create its work, and together with the culture accumulated from your buildings, you're well above the 5000 mark. If you've got a scientist, you can use it to research Mathematics or (if you saved the Great Prophet that was likely your first Great Person) start another Golden Age to boost research.
17. Again, if you don't dawdle, you should get Music before turn 143. As nobody else will have Music that early, you'll get a free Great Artist, i.e. free 4000 culture points, i.e. free 80% of your last remaining objective. Create its work, and you've won.
18. From about turn 120 onwards, Impi will try to attack you. These are the reason why I recommended to build axemen, because they will simply tear through the Impi. They are also the reason why I'd stay away from war chariots, because these are nothing but free experience for any Impi. Also, barbarian horse riders or even camel riders may appear, which is a good reason to have a spearman or two. However, it's also possible to fortify the cities, let the barbarians / natives plunder your country, concentrate on research and still win the game. At that stage, you only need the Great Artist to win.
Voila. You've won a peaceful Historic Victory with just two cities.
Now I'm curious whether you think that that's working strategy, or did I just get lucky? Personally, I was surprised how smooth it was once I decided not to bother with War Chariots, and instead concentrate on getting Music first. What do you think?
Also, what can be improved? I didn't micromanage GPPs - there might a way to improve the chances of getting a great artist spawned from GPPs. I never used fogbusters or any other prevention against barbarians. I used only one worker during the entire game. So certainly there are things that I could have done better.
I just browsed the thread and it seems that the strategy I used for my Egyptian Historical Victory two hours ago is not as obvious as I thought, so I thought I'd write the basics down.
Note: I don't claim that this is a brilliant, or even good, strategy. I simply don't have enough experience with RFC to evaluate it on that level. This was only my second RFC game after all, and it happened to run smoothly. I'm curious how the more experienced Egypt players rate the strategy. I played RFCW 1.19 on Monarch difficulty btw.
Key points:
1. Settle (i.e. found Niwt-rst) where you start.
2. Research Mysticism, then Masonry
3. While you're doing that, build one settler and one worker, and a warrior or two. The warrior's aren't really necessary, but they help making contact with other civs.
4. Send the settler to found Per-Wadjet in the northwest, one tile left of the wheat resource. That way it lies on the coast, has access to the wheat, fishes and three forest squares, and is connected to the capital by the Nile.
5. Use the worker to build a quarry on the stone resource. No need for roads here because the Nile connects most important tiles, instead of building roads move on to improve the marble and wheat tiles.
6. Build Stonehenge in Niwt-rst, followed by the Pyramids. It shouldn't be difficult to get those wonders, the few other AIs that are on the map at this time are still focused on expansion or building up an army.
7. Build the Great Lighthouse in Per-Wadjet. At first it will seem as it will never finish because the AI will only work the food tiles. Fine tune the production and switch to working the forest tiles, taking in account short periods of starvation, as long as it doesn't cost you population.
8. Keep an eye on your total culture. If you haven't dawdled, you should make the 500 culture points to fulfill your first objective.
9. Research Polytheism, Animal Husbandry, Writing, Alphabet and Literature next.
10. Build Libraries in both cities. Build the Parthenon in in Niwt-rst (not essential, but helpful). I also built the the Temple of Artemis in Per-Wadjet, but I'm not sure whether that's the best thing to do.
11. Pasture the horses next to Niwt-rst once they appear, to enhance the production capacity of your capital.
12. Somewhere in between, I also built three war chariots. They werent' actually useful though. Don't try to attack anybody, you're pathetically weak, but fortunately no ither civ can reach you (apart from the Carthaginians, but even these will be far away). Especially, don't invade Yerushalayim. As an independent city, Yerushalayim acts as a nice buffer between you and Babylon or Greece. Yerushalayim is your shield, because it is defended with archers, which we don't bother to build, we don't even have the technology.
13. Having Alphabet, you can go tech shoping with the other civs. It might be worthwile to get Pottery, Archery and especially Mining / Bronze Working. However, don't trade wonder technologies away until you're sure you'll get the wonder anyways (which is easy to estimate since no one can get a Great Engineer at this time except perhaps yourself). Note: You should get contact to Babylon and Greece when your scouting warriors (or your northern city) see one of their units across the city. Contact to Carthage and Rome can be made easily by sending a work boat into the Mediterranean. You want to build a workboat anyways to utilize the fish resource near Per-Wadjet, it doesn't hurt to send it westward first.
14. Build the Great Library in Niwt-rst. This completes the third objective for the HV, so that only the second objective remains. The Triumphal Arch will appear in your capital, starting a Golden Age. If you have successfully traded for Bronze Working, hook up the Copper resource and build two or three axemen and the same amount of spearmen there (using the production bonus from the arch). You'll need some protection later on. You can also try to build the Leaning Tower in Niwt-rst, but it's a bit of a gamble.
15. You now have to get 5000 culture by turn 143. No matter how many wonders you build, you won't make it with only two cities. But we're in an excellent position to get lots of culture with another method. Research Mathematics, then Music.
16. About now, your second Great Person should roll in (we accumulated a lot of GP bonuses in our capital). Chances are that it's either a scientist or an artist (chances for an artist are higher if you built the Leaning Tower). If you get an artist, you've won. Let it create its work, and together with the culture accumulated from your buildings, you're well above the 5000 mark. If you've got a scientist, you can use it to research Mathematics or (if you saved the Great Prophet that was likely your first Great Person) start another Golden Age to boost research.
17. Again, if you don't dawdle, you should get Music before turn 143. As nobody else will have Music that early, you'll get a free Great Artist, i.e. free 4000 culture points, i.e. free 80% of your last remaining objective. Create its work, and you've won.
18. From about turn 120 onwards, Impi will try to attack you. These are the reason why I recommended to build axemen, because they will simply tear through the Impi. They are also the reason why I'd stay away from war chariots, because these are nothing but free experience for any Impi. Also, barbarian horse riders or even camel riders may appear, which is a good reason to have a spearman or two. However, it's also possible to fortify the cities, let the barbarians / natives plunder your country, concentrate on research and still win the game. At that stage, you only need the Great Artist to win.
Voila. You've won a peaceful Historic Victory with just two cities.
Now I'm curious whether you think that that's working strategy, or did I just get lucky? Personally, I was surprised how smooth it was once I decided not to bother with War Chariots, and instead concentrate on getting Music first. What do you think?
Also, what can be improved? I didn't micromanage GPPs - there might a way to improve the chances of getting a great artist spawned from GPPs. I never used fogbusters or any other prevention against barbarians. I used only one worker during the entire game. So certainly there are things that I could have done better.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
It's pretty good actually. You got the basics right. However, it is possible to have 5000 culture in your capital alone without any artists.
One thing you saw that I didn't: it is possible to fight the unhealthy starting position with a quick settler. Well done!
One thing you saw that I didn't: it is possible to fight the unhealthy starting position with a quick settler. Well done!
Mercenary82
King
Its a pretty good peacful strategy for Egypt, although it doesnt leave much of a margin for error, having only 2 cities means the game is lost if you lose 1.
Rome sometimes attacks from the sea with all 4 praets, if they do you're toast. I had the unfortunate experience of them taking Per-wadjet from me just before it completed the GL.
My warmongering strategy involves taking a few cities that all get high culture, meaning even if I lose one later on, (even losing the capital) its still possible to win the UHV. Another advantage of having a strong military early on is the merc system. This lets you make a lot of money to use for research by hiring out war chariots, spears, and axes.
Rome sometimes attacks from the sea with all 4 praets, if they do you're toast. I had the unfortunate experience of them taking Per-wadjet from me just before it completed the GL.
My warmongering strategy involves taking a few cities that all get high culture, meaning even if I lose one later on, (even losing the capital) its still possible to win the UHV. Another advantage of having a strong military early on is the merc system. This lets you make a lot of money to use for research by hiring out war chariots, spears, and axes.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
In all strats, the game is lost if you lose any city. That's life. Just the way it is. Building the Light on the Red Sea instead of the Met helps avoid Roman problems, but that's a detail.
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