Strong navy tips?

[aarocks]

Although I have only played 5 or 6 serious games of civ (versus the play obsessively for 5 hours followed by a 3 month break), I never seem to build a strong enough navy. I'm getting better, as my current game on the difficulty setting Warlord on a BigAndSmall map has a large navy, my navies are almost always mainly transports/galleons/etc. Although I use my other ships to hold fighters, missiles, etc. as well as bombardment and blockades, they still seem to be easily destroyed by the enemy's navy. For example, 2 destroyers were destroyed by a destroyer and 2 transports. How can I make my navy more variant and stronger, so that in future games my army isn't the only scary thing.

 

[muxec]

Always move units in large stacks in war time. Instead of 2 groups of 2 destroyers have 1 group of 4 destroyers. Use these destroyers to cover transports and carriers.

 

[troytheface]

to late. Start with triremes and two galleys early.

you can get the "build triremes and get some bonus" event

the evidence is clear- trireme navy

 

[slobberinbear]

How can I make my navy more variant and stronger, so that in future games my army isn't the only scary thing.

The quick answer: research and production. Research key naval techs (metal casting, optics, astronomy, chemistry) before the AI civs and produce enough of them to maintain naval superiority.

If you find that the AI has a bigger or better navy, it may be best to keep your navy in port until it is big enough to engage the AI successfully. It does you no good to build two destroyers and then lose them right away.

The main function of a navy (pre-Carrier and Battleship) is to create naval superiority so that you can invade the AI while preventing them from invading you and pillaging your seafood.

 

[Lansky]

Unless they are at war the AI keeps a very very large portion of their navy stationed inside their cities. Scout them out and find those cities. Late game just take a ton of troops and a handful of ships so that you can capture or raze the city on the first turn of war. Suddenly the vast majority of their navy is no more.

 

[jsweeney]

I would suggest pretty much what the US did in the early 1900s. Find some isthmus that divide a major continent and claim it for yourself, Then make it so only you and your allies can use it. Then speak softly and carry a big stick. Don't demand anything from any nation, but make your presence known. Have your navy around the world. Find a conglomeration of islands and settle/conquer them. Also, a good navy is nothing without a good army, or vice versa. Make your civ a global behemoth.

 

[LordValuna]

Dont forget to travel around the world with two caravals, also getting maps
it will increase the speed of your units by 1 if you are first round the world!

 

[binhthuy71]

If you're warmongering then you're going to make teching Steel a priority. Besides cannons, Steel lets you build the Drydock which builds naval units 50% faster and gives them +4 Exp. Dirigibles are available at Physics and they can scout far out to sea from coastal cities. This enables you to concentrate your defensive forces in a few strategically placed strong battle groups and then hammer inbound enemy convoys. A dirigible can also do 20% damage to an enemy ship, not fatal but enough to give you a strong advantage when your fleet intercepts.

 

[aarocks]

thanks everyone. @ lansky: i have happened to find one of those cities, and surrounded it with ships, so that the ships cant get out. @ muxec i guess i should've just had them like every other tile around the city so that the stacks are larger? i would put some on sea patrol, but i dont exactly understand what that does? is it basically like sentry but attacks when an enemy ship moves into a neighboring tile? i dont exactly get what sea patrol does...

 

[budweiser]

I like to take the combat I promo (sturdy construction) first on all my ships. Next, I take Drill I (shoots first). Most naval engagements are decided by the side that shoots first.

 

[Fancy Will]

Don't delete obsolete navy units, upgrade them. Any city can make land units. Not all can build Navy units. My 2cents

 

[Birdman6]

Here's my take on naval strategy; feel free to take it or leave it:

First you should understand the purpose of navy in the game. A civ's navy revolves around the transport (whether galley, modern transport, or something in between), which is a powerful and unique unit often taken for granted. Presumably since you asked this question you're playing an ocean-filled map, and transports are the workhorses of your expansion, intelligence and warmongering. They rarely fight but without them you are geographically paralyzed and the same applies to the AI.

As such, with transports the sky is the limit for you. By the same token, if you can sink enemy transports then you badly limit the AI's potential because they can't expand or attack overseas.

Warships such as destroyers, subs, battleships, etc. do little more than support your transports and protect your coast (and occassionally pillage fishing boats and bombard cities). A warship should always be prepared to die to save a loaded transport or prevent an enemy landing.

You must also understand the nature of the ocean. It offers no defensive bonuses (except for +10% coastal defense), city protections, or terrain movement variations. It's a big, unprotected, blind battlefield in which you might encounter the enemy anytime, anywhere (with land units you can reasonably predict their general whereabouts based on the location of their cities; naval units can appear on the opposite side of the globe). As a result, it's wise to always assume the worst: that an enemy ship(s) is nearby.

If there's 1 key to naval strategy it's speed. Speed allows you to chase down the enemy or flee from danger, and cuts down the time your transports are vulnerable in the middle of the ocean. There are several developments that boost ship speed - such as refrigeration - but only 1 that's awarded to only 1 civ: the circumnavigation bonus. I find that if you get circumnavigation, you have a decisive naval advantage for the rest of the game. And that comes with the peace of mind knowing the enemy just can't catch you from behind no matter how hard he tries. The AI is slow to get circumnavigation so it's usually an easy achievement, but here are a few tips to win the race:
- beeline optics
- build 2 caravels and send them around the world in opposite directions, cutting circumnavigation time in half
- trade for a world map. the computer doesn't care if you've actually circumnavigated the globe, it only cares that you've uncovered 1 tile on every longitude. you can theoretically get the bonus without launching a single ship.

The 2nd key is always travel in fleets, or pairs at the very least. A ship alone on the open water is a sitting duck and you deserve to lose it for being so dumb. I never let my first frigate leave port without a wingman. The larger the fleet the better. The exception to this rule is exploration: early in the game when galleys and caravels are in fashion, there's not much that can threaten them. You're pretty safe sending them out alone, just be prepared to lose one every once in a while.

As with your army, diversity is important. A fleet of 9 destroyers is weaker than 3 destroyers, 3 battleships and 3 subs. Likewise, 3 destroyers with a variety of promotions is better equipped to handle the unexpected than 3 destroyers with the same promotions. People always ask what the best promotions are for this unit or that unit, blah blah blah. The true answer is variety!

My general rule of thumb is "if you see it, sink it." Make the enemy understand that your navy is a death trap and straying too close is unacceptable. Transports are the highest priority targets - you don't want the AI thinking he can just settle in your hemisphere willy-nilly. Or mount some ridiculous military beach-landing. Who does he think he is?! The world belongs to you darn it! If he does land units successfully, destroy the transport anyway, don't let it return home to pick up more units. Even those innocent-looking caravels act as spies; sink them and pick up the experience point.

As far as deployment goes, generally you want to protect your coastline before projecting your naval power abroad. I find pairs of frigates/destroyers stationed at key points around your coast work well. Later you can add 1 sub and 1 battleship to each group. After that you can start sending fleets overseas to be stationed off your opponents' coasts, harrassing their ships, pillaging their fish and providing useful coastline intelligence.

Building fleets is a significant investment in hammers and I often feel bad not producing army units instead. Afterall, ships can't capture cities. Solving this guilt means founding a coastal military farm that's separate from your primary military farm. I'm playing a game where my army farm has Heroic Epic (& soon Red Cross), while my navy farm has Ironworks and West Point. Together with the Pentagon I can crank out battleships every 2 turns with 3 promotions right off the bat. Meanwhile my 8-move transports (Navigation I) ferry tanks and artillery to the front line with impressive speed, while my warships long ago established supremacy on the ocean.

In the end you might take this entire post with a grain of salt because the AI is so dreadfully awful at naval warfare that there's barely a challenge. AI ships tend to camp out in cities (which is the most vulnerable place for a ship to be) and shy away from combat. When you approach the enemy coast they rarely stand up to you. They will successfully land units in your territory for an unprovoked sneak attack, but revenge is easy if you have coastal frigates/destroyers on hand. Otherwise they fail to travel in fleets and are easily picked off one by one. The AI doesn't even prioritize ship construction...it's much more concerned with army training.

There's much more I could go into - such as carriers, missiles and privateers - but as far as pure naval strength goes that pretty much wraps it up.

 

[muxec]

Air units are great for early detection of enemy fleets. Too bad you need to micro them to recon an ocean tile every turn.

 

[aarocks]

thanks all, esp birdman6. i already use some of these, but others were also much appreciated. anyone who has more tips feel free to post

 

[the reverend]

The best way to have an awesome modern navy is to beeline Astronomy and Chemistry, and send tons of Privateers to your opponents' coasts. You can easily get Combat 3 and Blitz promoted Privateers, which will upgrade to destroyers.

Also, if you're looking for a civ that dominates at naval warfare, try using the vikings.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I like to settle Great Generals in productive seaside towns. Ships don't get many XP bonuses early in the game, and the GGs will stay forever.

 

[Red Dwarf Devil]

Currently in a game at the minute (legends of Revolution Mod)

I always have normally 3 vessels in a self supporting triangle at least one sailing turn + a couple of extra tiles sailing from my coast along the suspected line of attacks from major AI worries (normally at least one will have sentry promotion), so I can see incoming attack fleets.

Behind the screen I will have groups of attack ships normally a fleet of 3 in each location which will be just less than 1 movement turn from the next attack fleet.

So basically I sort of work out were enemy fleets should come from, screen fleet can give a short advance warning which allows me to pull in the other attacks fleets and hit the incoming in a short sharp blow.

As the vessels improve and get longer travel movement the screen go out further and the attack fleets moves out etc . A few subs later on help for roving look-outs or trailing fleets. Once airships , aircraft and later on UAV's are available enemy surprize attacks are quite hard to pull off unless their are staring within a very short travel time. Or you forget to recon the sea with the aircraft ( have forgot many many times Oh for a set patrol route for air units)

That said if they manage to slip past as MontyZ just did to me sent 2 fleets, one fleet 10 ships= 7 galleons, 3 frigates which I found and pulled by counter fleet to engage,(while not at war but he was coming for me) so I struck first. But Monty had also sailed a much larger fleets 20 ships around a mutual friends coast and popped out near my coast, and landed on MY ISLAND (the cheek of Mad Monty)

However I had managed to get 3 frigates up-graded to escort Cruisers
attack Str 22 movement 5 so none of the enemy fleets ships made it back to Aztec land (WW1 or early WW2 type ships against wooden ships was fun for me)

To sum up:
1. Sail in groups to help support each other.
2. Have other groups close to form large fleets quickly
3. Never let empty or full transports escape if possible
4. Scout most likely attack routes.
5. Tact incoming fleets works a treat

 

[Birdman6]

Two more tips from my experience:

- Unless a ship is healing or hiding from certain death, never anchor inside a city. Ships are completely defenseless inside cities and they do absolutely nothing for you there. The AI is great at demonstrating the stupidity of this tactic. Much better to anchor along the coast where you can actually present a threat to the enemy.

- Ships take FOREVER to heal. Keep some medical vessels mixed in with your fleets.

 

[Maronae3]

My navy just consists of small stacks (3-4) of modern units (whatever they may be) for naval defense, with a large stack of modern units + transport ships for offense.

So for example, if I have Astronomy and Chemistry I would have stacks of Frigates for defense and stacks of Frigates+Galleons for offense. In the Modern Era, I would instead have Destroyer stacks for defense and Destroyers + Missile Carriers + Fighter Carriers + Transports in my offensive stack.

 

[MadmanAtW]

I have to disagree with Birdman. A navy in a city can't be surprise attacked unless the city gets jumped, and with some air recon you can almost always be prepared for there being a fleet within striking range. But leave a fleet on the water and one turn or another you'll get DoWed and after a bunch of guided missiles from some subs, a few flank subs, and then another naval stack, your stack- which may have been equally large or larger except that it took collateral damage first- will be at the bottom of the sea.

Granted, I'm not sure the AI is usually smart enough to do that. But it's how a LOT of my recent 2-4 human player and the rest AIs games have gone.