Stronger and More Useful Navy

[Nobody]

4. More Naval Power: Increase the power of Naval units. The power of combat ships is weak. The battleships, destroyers, cruisers only get one attack each turn where tanks get 3. However, the ships cost much more to build. Carriers only hold 4 air units, which makes them very underpowered. There are times when all 4 units can't put 1 hit point of damage on a unit- pathetic.

you just copyed what he said


and then

5. weak naval units- a battleship can only attack once but a MA can attack 3 times and the battleship costs much more. A carrier can carry only 4 air units. (I've had times where entire carrier didnt knock one hit point off a unit.)

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I don't mourn the loss of caravans-any more than I did spies or diplomats-simply because they were a micromanagement headache. Like spies and diplomats, though, I feel like they threw the baby out with the bathwater. Trade routes and espionage are both WAY too abstracted in Civ3, and I feel an opportunity now exists to come back more towards the middle ground. Trade routes which are visible and attackable (and defendable) would be a fantastic start.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[StavrosMelb]

Sounds like a lot of micro-management, Aussie_Lurker. Although I do like some of the ideas suggested.

Assigning ships to protect a trade route; the one problem I'd have with this is just the amount of resources required to protect each trade route, and whether disrupting a trade route would really benifit a civilization THAT much. IMO I think the only way this would really disrupt a civilization is if it had a lot of isolated cities to connect to the mainland (which in a sense they are already probably going to be poorly defended and easy to take -- that is what this is trying to accomplish I assume? or to stop the trading of a lux/resource, either way, to take a certain city). This would probably lead to people just building an airport instead to trade in later eras and bypass this problem until flight is discovered. If you were to block a trade route with another civilization, wouldn't that also cause war with that civ? It gets way too technical and over-complicated. Signing trade embargos is probably easier

Would make for an interesting suggestion, but it just seems like too much management and for little effect.

Speaking of which, why stop at creating only trade routes for land and sea, why not air as well? Raises the same problems and sea routes, unlimited # of routes and assigning protection... where does it end?

I dunno what to think

 

[Rambuchan]

trade routes in space? a trading capsule for the SS?

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I wasn't thinking of assigning defenders, neccessarily-though you could opt to do that if you want. I was thinking that trade routes have an inbuilt strength, determining how hard/easy they are to break or pillage. How strong a trade route is will depend on tech level and how much you are prepared to pay for it-and/or how much speed you are prepared to sacrifice as well.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[elementgoo]

Trade ruotes do not have to be on the water, they can be on the land too

 

[Luthor_Saxburg]

I mourn the loss of the Caravan and all that it has done to the naval units. We can have both trading systems work in tandem and restore navies to their former glory.

I agree, but it would help to have automated amphibious moves, so that you could programme caravanes to move from one continent to another without any type of manual input (no micromanagement).

Having to continuously move caravans manually... iccchs!

 

[North King]

I like this image which keeps popping into my head, and animated trade route of wagons trundling along on a road (smaller than most of the units) along the trade route...

EDIT: Sea routes would be ships, of course.

 

[rhialto]

GalCiv has a very nice trade model. You build freighter (caravan) units, and then send them (by boat if necessary) to the trade-artner-planet (city) of your choice. The unit is consumed in the process. Once a trade route is established, computer-controlled mini-freighters then travel back and forth.

Adapted to civ, these can generate income each time they arrive, they can be attacked for their gold value, and if 3 fail to arrive in a row, the route is broken and needs to be re-established.

Under certain governments, attacking caravans (civilians) may count as an atrocity or cause war weariness.

 

[dh_epic]

What made trade work in Gal Civ, though, was more than just the interface.

1: There were limits on the number of caravans that you could work with at one time, which increased with new technology. (The stated reason was "The United Planets".)

2: Trade generated LOTS of gold for both civs, and became hard to live without.

Without 1, you end up in the Civilization 2 mode where players can exploit it and get to the point of ridiculousness. It also starts rewarding micromanagement.

Without 2, it becomes pointless to trade or remain at peace.

But I think there's something to learn from here, for sure.

 

[ForbiddenPalace]

Ships should have more hit points such that at least six stealth bomber can sink one ship in one turn. Also, the bombard strength should be much higher such that it can easily destroy any shoreline terrain improvements in one turn.