Strongest UU excluding the Praetorian?

Best UU excluding the Praetorian?

  • Ballista Elephant

    Votes: 4 1.0%
  • Berserker

    Votes: 10 2.6%
  • Bowman

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Catapract

    Votes: 38 9.9%
  • Carrack

    Votes: 9 2.3%
  • Cho Ko Nu

    Votes: 30 7.8%
  • Conquistador

    Votes: 7 1.8%
  • Dog Soldier

    Votes: 6 1.6%
  • East Indiaman, Fast Worker

    Votes: 30 7.8%
  • Gallic Swordman

    Votes: 4 1.0%
  • Hwacha

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • Holkan

    Votes: 3 0.8%
  • Immortal

    Votes: 48 12.5%
  • ImpiVulture

    Votes: 15 3.9%
  • Jaguar

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Janissary

    Votes: 9 2.3%
  • Landsknecht

    Votes: 34 8.9%
  • Navy Seal

    Votes: 14 3.7%
  • Numidian Cavalry

    Votes: 5 1.3%
  • Oromo Warrior

    Votes: 23 6.0%
  • Quechua

    Votes: 24 6.3%
  • Redcoat

    Votes: 28 7.3%
  • Skirmisher

    Votes: 7 1.8%
  • Keshik

    Votes: 6 1.6%
  • Other UU that I couldn't fit! :lol:

    Votes: 25 6.5%

  • Total voters
    383
Oh...ok

But is it Drill 1 AND 2 first strikes (meaning 3 first strikes), or just that those 2 first strikes are represented as drill 1 (as is the case with Antitank and ambush - they have ambush, which represents the fact that they have +100% vs armor)

And how is that... more than one first strike... I mean... the next strike after the first... would be the second... wouldn't it ? :)
 
Cataphract and Oromo Warrior (there really should be more than one choice).
 
WC's a strong units especially with their 2 mobility but are easily countered with spearmen - a unit that's relatively easy to produce in the early game. So, other than protecting the homeland, that mobility gets nerfed as the WC is forced to travel with a stack of axemen or other non-horse unit.

I like Tokugawa's Samurai - I don't like his Protective trait.

However, spearmen cost 35 whereas WCs cost 30. This was of course more extreme in Warlords/vanilla when WCs were to be had for 25

As for Immortals' defensive bonuses: On a forest they have a strength of 6, 6.4 if you have combat 1. Against a spearman with 8/8.4 they still won't do a lot. You always need more than one of them to beat the spear which means that the WC to me still is preferable because it has a much better chance of beating the spearman in an attack. With Immortals, one spearman will normally kill more than two of your units, with WCs it'll usually kill only one.
Another point is the match-up against axemen, swordsmen and other chariots. Your opponent usually won't solely consist of spearmen or archers, they'll have some other units, too.
Anyways, you can do a nice rush with both Immortals and WCs but for me the WC rush is better because it's a bit safer to do. A good strategy here is resource denial, too. Just pillage their copper and iron mines and they won't be able to stop you properly.

Over a melee unit the WC simply has the advantage of greater mobility - a very important point especially in the early game. You can just move in, pillage, kill reinforcement units or take a city that's more lightly defended. You can decide where you fight, not the other way around.

As for the Samurai: Yep, I forgot to mention Drill which they got in BtS because for some strange reason I assumed every unit will have it (I was probably thinking gunpowder :mischief: )
 
Because I tend to get into the Modern area a LOT in my games (when I play them out), the SEALs tend to be my choice of UU.
 
Numidain cavalry is basicly later faster axmen which in throey match macemen.
 
Just as I did when Praetorians were included, I rate the Carrack highest. Are all of you folks playing on landlocked maps or something? Being able to colonize uninhabited islands first is super-valuable. Being able to carry your colonists through rival sea territory is sometimes crucial and often handy. And a transport that is actually competitive with the warship of its era (in fact, is the UU version of same) is amazing.
 
I'm surprised that Phalanx didn't make the poll - an early unique unit with no real counter available before siege units arrive on the scene. Not too shabby...

They may, in fact, be the only UU which requires another UU to counter it effectively early on... the Praetorian.
 
Just as I did when Praetorians were included, I rate the Carrack highest. Are all of you folks playing on landlocked maps or something? Being able to colonize uninhabited islands first is super-valuable. Being able to carry your colonists through rival sea territory is sometimes crucial and often handy. And a transport that is actually competitive with the warship of its era (in fact, is the UU version of same) is amazing.

I usually focus on conquering my own continent before expanding overseas... unless I'm on a small island or something which is rare. (I've been playing Hemispheres lately.) Maybe it just depends on the situation and flavor of game you like - but to me it just seems more financially sound in terms of matinence costs to focus on your own continent during the mid-game before focusing on expanding through colonization. I can see what you're saying though with the carrack being a strong transport and being able to travel through rival waters, though.
 
Gotta love redcoats - and not just because I'm a stout Englishman proud of his imperialistic past. Not just because they look incredibly cool either. In a recent game I played - I'm not sure if this was a bug or something, but grenadiers did not recieve +50% vs my redcoats, as they would against riflemen. This sort of kills the RPS arrangement that normally exists and makes redcoats godly. Especially as I collected as many city raider 3 macemen as possible, with the sole intention of upgrading them to redoats...
 
Gotta love redcoats - and not just because I'm a stout Englishman proud of his imperialistic past. Not just because they look incredibly cool either. In a recent game I played - I'm not sure if this was a bug or something, but grenadiers did not recieve +50% vs my redcoats, as they would against riflemen. This sort of kills the RPS arrangement that normally exists and makes redcoats godly. Especially as I collected as many city raider 3 macemen as possible, with the sole intention of upgrading them to redoats...
COMRAD
grenadiers only recieve bonus when attacking and even when they get the bonus its 50/50,
 
Well, I've played <10 serious games of Civ IV, but the Musketeer is the only one I've ever got any use out of.
 
I think the Vulture is one of the new powerhouse UUs. It's like a swordsman and axeman combined. No extra hammers or strigent resource requirements: just hook up copper, and you're good to go.

The Samurai and Oromo Warriors are solid units also. First strikes and free promotions go a long way.

And I don't care much for the new Greek UU. Back in Warlords and Vanilla, you know what I liked to use to protect my axe-stacks from chariots? Phalanxs. And they kicked the crap out of horse archers and elephants too. Now I have to use crummy old spearmen for that.

old phalanx > new phalanx
 
Horse-archers aren't exactly early on (for rushing purposes), and can easily be countered with spears. You're missing my point. ;)

I don't think so really. It has counters, the normal unit it replaces is a counter. If you already use spears you can as well use a normal axeman and put a spearman or two under the stack to protect them from chariots which has exactly the same effect.
And for the AI horseback riding is never very far away.

I just strongly reject the notion of the Phalanx as a strong unique unit. It isn't because in about 75% of cases it's not stronger than the unit it replaces.
For example you could easily say the Impi is a lot better because it has mobility and two movement points. It's always better than what it replaces. Granted, it's countered by axemen easily but I don't see the huge problem in that when I can use a few Imps to march into my opponent's territory and rob him blind. Similar considerations apply to the Immortal or the War Chariot, both excellent units in my opinion.

You should also be careful to confuse the strength of the Praetorian with that of Alexander's agg trait. Of course your Phalanx will often beat most units, but so will Tokugawa's axemen. I would even go as far as saying the Phalanx is one of the worst UU around (of course the jaguar beats them all but meh)

Edit: DigitalBoy, the Vulture would be ace were it not for the way punch works. As it is now, a Vulture with Combat 1 + Punch against an Axeman with Combat 1 + Punch will lose in more than 50% of cases. It's still pretty good, mind. I liked using it a lot and it's especially cool for rushing together with the courthouse you get with priesthood.
 
immortal, they have two movements, they destroy archer and if there is a roman, just rush on him before he gets praetorian. They only suck against skirmishers basically... but if you destroy all other civs who cares...
 
I don't think so really. It has counters, the normal unit it replaces is a counter. If you already use spears you can as well use a normal axeman and put a spearman or two under the stack to protect them from chariots which has exactly the same effect.
And for the AI horseback riding is never very far away.

I just strongly reject the notion of the Phalanx as a strong unique unit. It isn't because in about 75% of cases it's not stronger than the unit it replaces.
For example you could easily say the Impi is a lot better because it has mobility and two movement points. It's always better than what it replaces. Granted, it's countered by axemen easily but I don't see the huge problem in that when I can use a few Imps to march into my opponent's territory and rob him blind. Similar considerations apply to the Immortal or the War Chariot, both excellent units in my opinion.

I am not going to reiterate what Antilogic has already said quite eloquently with regards to the Phalanx. Here are the highlights of his thoughts:

With an equal amount of production, a civilization that has to split its early fighting force between spears and axes is going to get smashed against a pure Greek phalanx army. The advantage for the Greeks is not in the individual unit, but that they don't have to worry about chariots early game, and so can produce more melee anti-melee units than any other civ who has to produce some melee anti-mounted. It's a big picture advantage, not an individual unit advantage.

<snip>...say you have two roughly equal stacks, a Greek army and some other army fighting. The Greek army is mostly phalanxes and a few chariots. The other army is a mixture of axemen, spearmen, and chariots.

The Greeks can simply attack from the start with phalanxes and fight on equal terms: the only difference will be the training of the phalanx vs. the axes. If the Greeks attack with chariots, the spears will slaughter them. If any axes or chariots break off from the other army's main force, either the chariots or phalanxes will slaughter them (both battles go to the Greeks). Now, look at the other army: if they try to attack with spears to kill the chariots, the phalanxes win. If they try to attack with chariots to beat up the phalanxes...it still doesn't work, although it is not as bad of a slaughter. If they attack with the axes, its a fair fight.

Where this gets interesting is after the losses start to pile up. If the other army loses "axe strength", the spears and chariots become vulnerable to phalanx attacks, and get slaughtered. Now, the Greek chariots come in and mop up the remainder of the other army's axes. If the phalanxes start to take some losses, however, such a vulnerability does not open up--all the Greek troops can fight against the melee axes (no spearmen) and hold their own against the chariots if not damaged. With an equal amount of production and thus nearly equal numbers, the phalanxes will trump, but not without a fair fight to start.
 
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