Strongest UU excluding the Praetorian?

[Silence101]

I'm surprised that Phalanx didn't make the poll - an early unique unit with no real counter available before siege units arrive on the scene. Not too shabby...

 

[eoc]

Inca warrior is the best UU at the ancient starting.

 

[Angst]

Inca warrior is the best UU at the ancient starting.

Why not Holkan? Double strength, created slower but available with no resources after researching Hunting.

EDIT: Available earlier than the archer also.

 

[r_rolo1]

Why not Holkan? Double strength, created slower but available with no resources after researching Hunting.

EDIT: Available earlier than the archer also.

Holkan needs BW ( not cooper ) ... that makes his arrival a little it later, but in a very reasonable time frame ( with luck and a nearby civ, you can attack them before they can hook cooper and build axes )

 

[Diamondeye]

@Silence 101, my reply to another player suggesting the Phalanx as unbeatable:

...Except ofcourse by:
Axemen ( 5 vs 5 = 50:50)
Catapults ( 5 vs 5 = 50:50)
Dog Soldiers (4+50%= 6:strength vs 5 = 55:45)
Preatorians (8 vs 5 +50% = 7,5 = 53:47)
Bowmen (4 +1 firststrike vs 5 :strength = 45:55)

Unless I got something wrong - calcs are circas.

 

[TravellingHat]

I have a soft spot for the cho-ko-nu, and they can be acquired very early using the Oracle/GE tactic (laughably easy with Qin Shi Huang's industrious trait).

As a medieval unit they have their counters, but when you have them running around in the early iron age, it's unrestrained repeating crossbow madness!

 

[Squarg]

IMPIVULTURE All the way!!

Seriously Impi rock. I just won an 18 civ terra game with them in 1500 BC. I don't think any other UU can do that.

 

[Innawerkz]

@Silence 101, my reply to another player suggesting the Phalanx as unbeatable:

If you are using the Phalanx for Conquest, you use Alex. If you use Alex, strike the Dog Soldier, Praetorian, most other Axemen and certainly the Bowmen from your list of counters. I don't mention the Catapult because he said pre-siege.

Any of these units without Barracks will lose against an Aggressive Axeman/Phalanx. Alex with his cheap Barracks vs. any of these with a barracks equates to an even more lopsided victory in Greece's favor.

This is true of ANY aggressive axeman. Resistant to Chariots is what makes the Phalanx stand above them. Essentially: No direct counter.

 

[Bast]

If you are using the Phalanx for Conquest, you use Alex. If you use Alex, strike the Dog Soldier, Praetorian, most other Axemen and certainly the Bowmen from your list of counters. I don't mention the Catapult because he said pre-siege.

Any of these units without Barracks will lose against an Aggressive Axeman/Phalanx. Alex with his cheap Barracks vs. any of these with a barracks equates to an even more lopsided victory in Greece's favor.

This is true of ANY aggressive axeman. Resistant to Chariots is what makes the Phalanx stand above them. Essentially: No direct counter.

I complained about the phalanx when I used it with Pericles. And then I tried them out with Alexander and wiped out 2 civilizations before the AD years. It's true, it can be very powerful in Alexander's hands.

 

[Angst]

Holkan needs BW ( not cooper ) ... that makes his arrival a little it later, but in a very reasonable time frame ( with luck and a nearby civ, you can attack them before they can hook cooper and build axes )

Oops then I voted wrong

 

[Silence101]

@Silence 101, my reply to another player suggesting the Phalanx as unbeatable:

Nice breakdown of combat stats
I didn't see your previous post - I was just more suprised that Phalanx didn't make the poll as a specific choice. It would've been one of the first I'd include - definately among the five top units in the game.

If you are using the Phalanx for Conquest, you use Alex. If you use Alex, strike the Dog Soldier, Praetorian, most other Axemen and certainly the Bowmen from your list of counters. I don't mention the Catapult because he said pre-siege.

Any of these units without Barracks will lose against an Aggressive Axeman/Phalanx. Alex with his cheap Barracks vs. any of these with a barracks equates to an even more lopsided victory in Greece's favor.

This is true of ANY aggressive axeman. Resistant to Chariots is what makes the Phalanx stand above them. Essentially: No direct counter.

Completely agree - Alexander's Phalanx are the ultimate early rush unit. I personally have found them more useful than Praet's because of their early availability and lack of a counter. And of course because they're available before seige units are around, stopping a stack of Alex's Phalanx is a real nightmare.

 

[Innawerkz]

Completely agree - Alexander's Phalanx are the ultimate early rush unit. I personally have found them more useful than Praet's because of their early availability and lack of a counter. And of course because they're available before seige units are around, stopping a stack of Alex's Phalanx is a real nightmare.

I play more MP than single player - which is why I voted for the Bowman - and personally HATE playing against Alexander's Greece. It is very difficult to take him down. I find it more worthwhile to move past his stack and head to his Copper. Fortify there and hope he spends trying to knock me off.

Forcing me to alter my warfare tactics is the first indication to me that a unit is powerful. Besides the Phalanx, only the Praet has that kind of influence on my army composition.

 

[Squarg]

I play more MP than single player - which is why I voted for the Bowman - and personally HATE playing against Alexander's Greece. It is very difficult to take him down. I find it more worthwhile to move past his stack and head to his Copper. Fortify there and hope he spends trying to knock me off.

Forcing me to alter my warfare tactics is the first indication to me that a unit is powerful. Besides the Phalanx, only the Praet has that kind of influence on my army composition.

Dog soldiers made me alter my army. They annoy me.

 

[alpaca]

Hmm some opinions here that are completely different than my own.

For me the strongest UU still is the War Chariot. It's definitely better than the Immortal which is whacked by anything that's not an archer (and against archers the WC is about as strong - it's immune to first strikes whereas the Immortal is not and of course has more ). Fortunately it's been nerfed a bit in BtS from 30 to 25 but it's still damn strong.
I actually wonder if I should try my Hatshepsut rush again. The best finish I had in Warlords was 25 BC on a standard size normal speed pangaea map.

By the way, the Samurai has become quite strong with 2 first strikes and Tokugawa's Agg/Pro traits

 

[Silence101]

Hmm some opinions here that are completely different than my own.

For me the strongest UU still is the War Chariot. It's definitely better than the Immortal which is whacked by anything that's not an archer (and against archers the WC is about as strong - it's immune to first strikes whereas the Immortal is not and of course has more ). Fortunately it's been nerfed a bit in BtS from 30 to 25 but it's still damn strong.
I actually wonder if I should try my Hatshepsut rush again. The best finish I had in Warlords was 25 BC on a standard size normal speed pangaea map.

By the way, the Samurai has become quite strong with 2 first strikes and Tokugawa's Agg/Pro traits

WC's a strong units especially with their 2 mobility but are easily countered with spearmen - a unit that's relatively easy to produce in the early game. So, other than protecting the homeland, that mobility gets nerfed as the WC is forced to travel with a stack of axemen or other non-horse unit.

I like Tokugawa's Samurai - I don't like his Protective trait.

 

[Innawerkz]

Dog soldiers made me alter my army. They annoy me.

The Native American civ is certainly in top-tier to me. Immovable archery units that are equally impressive offensively, as defensively. And the Dog Soldiers. A powerful resourceless rush unit. It is not difficult to choke out two civilizations combining these two resourceless units if you have a reasonable production start.

They, Impis, Holkans & the Incans were the main reason I switched to playing the Babylonians. The Bowmen counter virtually every early rush unit. If you can make it to their territory and get them in a forest or on a hill, they are almost impossible to uproot. Choke them until you get your Aggressive enhanced units on-line and march in for a relatively easy kill.

@alpaca: I have a very big fondness for the War Chariot. I agree it ranks among the best. I think the biggest advantage the Immortal has over the War Chariot is it CAN receive a defensive bonus. A Swordsman can kill a WC anywhere, but not a fortified Immortal in a forest.

 

[Nay]

Holkan isnt getting enough love here.
Spearman without metal = nice (FU immortals!)

but id have to vote for landsknecht, Spearmaceman with trebuchets is just hardcore.

 

[tomaalimosh]

wow!

Unbelievable, I voted Immortals but I didn't think they would be in the lead. I mean... I like them as you can use them as an all purpose unit - they can even fortify, which is way cool, and the bonus vs archery makes them good at attacking as well.

Very good UU. not the absolute best, but in the beginning, and especially on huge maps, raging barbarians and marathon, as I play, they are very good.

nice to see others share my opinion.

from what I played, Redcoats would also be pretty cool.
oh... and of course, uber-fast worker FTW

 

[tomaalimosh]

Samurai with togu, comes with strength 1, Drill 1, and its unique ability of 2 additional first strikes, with trebs these things cannot be stopped

Does the samurai really start with drill 1? Why... Weren't protective traits limited to archery and gunpowder units?...
and unless the samurai can spit really far or curse really bad, I can't see any range attack there....

However... I never played it, ... so I don't know... It may be as you say

 

[Nay]

Samurai start with 1 first strike on their own, nothing to do with protective.

Nothing to do with ranged either, they just let their blades flash lightning fast.
Shesh, never seen any samurai-movies?