stuck at warlords level

[xatharas]

hi guys,

i've been playing civ since the game came on the amiga 500 (civ 1), and I'm reading this forum since civ 3.
I'm always astounded to read about wins on any level over noble! I play on warlords and win most of the games on points, but I want to win in other ways too. When I play on noble I get plastered! I play on all kind of maps (although I mostly lose on anything but pangea).
I tried a duel map pangea on prince just now and by the time I got a stack of incan wariors (their special unit) the AI had a stack of archers in his cities!! By the time I could attack he was changing to longbowmen. I just don't get how anyone can win on these terms.
I read the strategy articles and try them out but I seem to be building everything in every city all the time, they keep asking for something.

How do you guys keep track of everything? Do you check every city and every units orders every step of the way? And do you check the advisors every turn to change what needs to be changed? How can you outbuild the AI on noble?

This is probably a pathetic rambling on my account but it's frustrating to read that someone got a win on emporer when noble is beyond me (or am I just stupid )

so the main question is how do you climb to the higher levels? jump in and put it on emporer and restart till you finally win (tried it but got depressed ) or play on chieftain till you win by 3800BC (a little later probably but you got the picture )

thx in advance guys (that is if anyone doesn't get a headache from all this rambling and actually answers)

 

[ratrangerm]

The biggest thing I've found when playing at higher levels is to do a little more checking of cities, especially in the early game.

An easy way to do that is this:
* Your production cities should be checked the most, so you can decide when is the right time to crack the whip (Slavery should be one of your early civics) so you can get units produced faster.
* Commerce cities should be monitored not as regularly as production cities, but check them every few turns or so to make sure the tiles you want to work are being worked, specialists are properly assigned, and that growth is turned off or the city made stagnant if you are nearing your happiness threshold.
* Specialize your cities. A brief explanation:
+ Production cities are where to put your barracks, forge and military National Wonders. You want one early in the game, and a second will help as you approach midgame.
+ Commerce cities contain all science and gold improvements (libraries, markets, etc.). In the early game, you'll want three or four.
+ Great Person farm: One city on which you build farms on as many tiles as possible. Having food resources also helps. Then build the buildings that allow specialists and start assigning them.
* You need to do an early rush on at least one of your opponents... targeting your closest rival is usually the best option, unless you have a psycho like Montezuma who isn't far from you, then you better target the psycho first so you won't have problems later in the game.

There are many threads throughout the forum I have read and they have helped me improve my play. Following the various challenge threads with sample games can also give you some ideas.

 

[Ankh-f-n-Khonsu]

How do you guys keep track of everything? Do you check every city and every units orders every step of the way? And do you check the advisors every turn to change what needs to be changed? How can you outbuild the AI on noble?

The more often I take the time to check my cities along the lines that ratrangerm mentioned, the better I do. Also, the HOF mod http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php has made it MUCH easier, giving a heads-up to game data that is readily available, but too strewn about to keep a constant eye on. The first game I played with that mod ended with a diplomatic victory and twice the score of my previous best.

Ultimately, you've just got to micromanage the sh t out of the game.

 

[Swein Forkbeard]

I am also stuck recovering score in some of my Noble games. However, in this one game as Kublai Khan, I am WAY ahead of the AIs in score (the ones I've met anyway; there's still one civilization to meet). Well, I did devour the American civilization (which had ivory but no horses or war metals) with keshiks, axemen, and catapults (I did use a single keshik to raze Philadelphia and New York, though), then I went after the Incan civilization to obtain Tiwanaku, which had the Oracle and Chichen Itza in it as well being the holy site of my state religion, then I captured Machu Picchu, dividing the Incan Empire into a strong north and a weak south squeezed by Spanish culture and the Etruscan barbarians. I did sign Open Borders with the Incan emperor, though, so didn't matter about the division, but I effectively knocked him down in score. Then some atheist people in caravel came to visit and revealed themselves as Persians. After that, the Egyptians (who were on the other side of my continent) settled on an island south of my Mongolians in the settlement of Hieraconopolis. I am now building the University of Sankore in Karakorum (which also had Stonehenge, the Great Lighthouse, and the Colossus), and am building infrastructure everywhere else.

 

[HiroHito]

you need to rush and make war early.

 

[duezeone]

the biggest thing is management... A lot of micromanagement early on too.

 

[Good Sauce]

Some pointers that have been helpful to me:
-Don't be distracted by shinny wonders. They're big and pretty but take forever to build. Unless you have a definative reason for a wonder, pass it up.
-Don't be distracted by shinny buildings. No unhappy face in that city? Don't give them that temple they're clamoring for, build another axman.
(A note on health/unhappiness: take care of unhappiness ASAP, but unhealthiness isn't as big a deal, a city can be unhealthy and still be a good city.)
-BUILD A MILITARY! This is my single greatest downfall, and I suspect it might be yours too. it springs from my first two points, if' you're not building military, and your neighbor is, he's going to take all those nice buildings for himself.
-Archers won't cut it. You need copper. you need axmen.

Finally, don't be afraid of the World Builder as a learning tool. If it's your first time on a harder difficulty go ahead and give yourself that sweet start you've been dreaming of. Or fix that one mistake that's ruining an otherwise good game.
Just remember that you are cheating, your goal should always be to win without cheating. Don't get hooked on the WB drug, it can be nice, but keep it in small doses.

 

[Uncle E]

I recently played the Mongols again after a long stint w/ the Incas and was pleasantly surprised when I was expanding well (cheaper settlers) and on top of the power graph bc I wasn't building any wonders and just focusing on the city basics like granaries (slavery/whipping), barracks and ger (stables) & forges while specializing 2 cities to pump out keshiks and axemen ... good ol Isabelle was first to get eradicated as I ruthlessly rushed her w/ axemen and used my keshiks to scout ahead and mop up units that were on unfavorable ground.

Try a game of building no wonders and see if that makes a difference on warlords/noble settings ... be aggressive and dont forget to bring catapults!

 

[Winston Hughes]

I seem to be building everything in every city all the time, they keep asking for something.

You are suffering from a classic case of builderholism; the compulsive desire to build everything everywhere. Check out this thread for a discussion of how to overcome this affliction:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=199533

If you can't be bothered to read the whole thing, then just check out the last couple of pages where Voice of Unreason gives a fairly detailed explanation of when to build certain buildings. Bearing in mind that everyone has a different playing style, you wouldn't necessarily want to follow his advice to the letter. But it ought to help you to think about why you're building something and whether you really need to do so.

 

[cabert]

I suggest reading the war academy thoroughly

Some basic improvement in my game I found made the difference between noble and prince (so could probably give you a real kick at your level):
- build more workers (nothing can be worth than being stuck with working unimproved tiles)
- specialize cities
- attack!
- cottage

 

[DarkFyre99]

I read the strategy articles and try them out but I seem to be building everything in every city all the time, they keep asking for something.

Problem #1: You're obviously not specializing your cities.

You shouldn't be building everything in every city. Instead, you should be dedicating your cities to a specific purpose. I have five types myself: Military Production, General Production, Science, Wealth, and Great People Points.

For example, Production cities don't get research and gold buildings, and Science cities don't get (most) gold and production buildings.

Five specialized cities by far outproduce and outresearch five "jack of all trades" cities, simply because they don't need to build everything, allowing you to divert hammers for other purposes, or have a citizen work a more appropriate tile.

How do you guys keep track of everything? Do you check every city and every units orders every step of the way? And do you check the advisors every turn to change what needs to be changed? How can you outbuild the AI on noble?

The more you're willing to micromanage, the better you do. I would never let the AI chose my buildings and control my workers. I have had a bit of luck manipulating the "priority" buttons to have the AI control my citizens... but I'm sure I'd do better if I did it myself.

so the main question is how do you climb to the higher levels? jump in and put it on emporer and restart till you finally win (tried it but got depressed ) or play on chieftain till you win by 3800BC (a little later probably but you got the picture )

Another thing that can help you get ahead is learning how to use civics effectively. For example, if only one city is producing units, then you shouldn't be running theology and vassalism.

The last thing that really helps you succeed is learning when to expand, and by how much. Expand too fast, and your research suffers, which can begin a vicious cycle that leaves you so far behind the AI that you'll never catch up.

 

[xatharas]

thx for the good tips guys!

guess my main problem here is that I'm lazy! I hardly ever open a city window unless it asks for something (eg when the previous one finished I take one of the two recomended options and that's it!
I tell workers what to do in the beginning but then put them on automatic and mostly that means they just sit there in the cities to wait until I researched something new (I put them on 'build trade network because otherwise they change my cottages to farms )

I build military units as the cities ask unless I want to go to war! But wars end up badly unless I'm way ahead in tech! And that only happens when I play on chieftain or sometimes warlords.

I played the celts just the other night and beelined to ironworking and started pumping out swordmen (it's their specialized unit) and gues what.. my units were getting slautered by their swordmen (I was doing the attacking!!) my swordmen had a 25% chance of winning on grassland, I don't get it at all, I'll never play those celts again although I have this problem with other units too.

another problem is the specialists I haven't got a clue what to do with those.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Ok, firstly, ignore the building advisor; it has no idea what you're planning to do, and in many cases you'd probably do just as well by picking a build at random. Read VoU's advice in that thread I linked; he lists the buildings by era, and explains when and why he chooses to build them. If you don't understand something he's written (some of it implies an understanding of more complex ideas), then just post a couple of questions on the thread.

I'm told that automated workers can actually do a better-than-useless job nowadays, but there's still no way in hell you'd catch me using them. Apart from the fact that choosing the right improvements for your cities is one of the most important elements of the game imo, I can't see how sitting there turn after turn without making any decisions for yourself can be counted as fun. But, I guess some people just really hate micromanagement...

War is the one place where you should be able to outdo the AI most easily. Far from needing a tech advantage, it's quite possible to win wars with a tech disadvantage provided you've got the right mix of troops and you know how to get the best out of them. Promotions are often the key to victory; don't promote your units when you first build them; wait until you know what they're going to be used for. In most cases you won't need to promote them until they're just about to fight.

Also, try to get a grasp of which units are best for which jobs, and of how units can often be countered by a different kind of unit (eg. in general spearmen>horse archers, horse archers>axemen, and axemen>spearmen). Consider what units your enemy will be using when you put together your armies (for example, if they don't have access to horses, then the value of spearmen is greatly reduced). And never underestimate the value of siege weapons; they are crucial for breaking into those hard-to-crack cities, and can sometimes be used to cripple a stack of enemy units advancing into your territory.

Finally, specialists are one of the most complex areas of civ4, but they are also one of the most powerful tools at your disposal if you can figure out a way to use them effectively. There are loads of great threads discussing the various uses for them, but the 'Specialists' and 'Great People' sections of Sisiutil's Strategy Guide are a good place to start:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=165632

From there you might want to move on to JackOfClubs' explanation of how to run a Specialist Economy, which demonstrates how they can be used to power your research:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=197818

Hope that helps.

 

[TyranusBonehead]

I've been stuck at warlords level myself, but I know why, I tend to be a very casual player. I build, maintain my army, research and trade techs, and only go to war when provoked. I'm sure this is not conducive to good play at higher difficulty levels. It's time to grow man, at least for me. You'll probably see me on this strategy forum more often in the future.

One thing I can see right away is the way I've been addressing city specialization. If I'm going for spaceship victory for example, all cities are specializing on production, with my capital also specializing on Great Persons. I need to do some reading and make some changes in my playing style.

 

[Cam_H]

... If I'm going for spaceship victory for example, all cities are specializing on production...

If you're going after a Spaceship win, you would arguably benefit from two or three highly productive cities, and some reasonably good second tier ones that can produce SS Casings and SS Thrusters in a timeframe that will work in with the larger and/or latest parts' builds.

Even with The Internet, you will probably need to self-research a couple of technologies such as Ecology or Genetics, so at least a couple of commerce-oriented cities are in liklihood well worth keeping as such rather than converting your Towns over to Workshops and Watermills too quickly.

I've found the liklihood of getting attacked rises in this phase of the game (not always, but sometimes) so it's best to keep pumping out some units to be on the safe-side, and keeping some cash for upgrades. Also, ideally you'll have four Spies floating around causing troubles for your rivals, and they'll require cash to perform their missions - so, don't drop all commerce unless you're confident that you dont need it.

... with my capital also specializing on Great Persons...

I am assuming you mean during the late-game as well as prior to then.

I find great People aren't that terribly useful in the final stages of a Spaceship pursuit: Great Engineers can help hurry The Space Elevator, and Great Merchants can bring some big gold hauls from Trade Missions, but often Great People in the final stages are best used to kick off a late-game Golden Age. It is situation-dependant, but using your capital as your farm is not always the best option ('Can of Worms' issue) - it can be, but not always.

I need to do some reading and make some changes in my playing style.

Keep reading and learning! Also following games such as those in the Succession Games forum can be very enlightening. There are also some games in this forum that might be of interest - Sisiutil's 'ALC' games have been played at Prince and Monarch level.

Best of luck with it!

 

[cabert]

the best way to learn from a read is to try to play it yourself
this way you really "change your playing style"
reading is good for the understanding but not enough to make a change

 

[Harald500]

I tell workers what to do in the beginning but then put them on automatic and mostly that means they just sit there in the cities to wait until I researched something new (I put them on 'build trade network because otherwise they change my cottages to farms )

If you go into "your settings" you may tell the automated workers NOT to change allready improved tiles.

Alltough the best sollution is to micromanage your workers, it may be ok to automate them sometimes, when you should focus on other aspectes of your game. They do an ok job, if you do the initial work yourself.

Besides that, I must kling to the statement from many of the other guys that says attack early on. It is of out most importence. I'm playing a noble game now. Terra huge map, 18 civs, marathon. I got Montezuma as my nearest neighbor, and knew I had to take him out fast. I did, but he still has one city left and is now a vassal of Kublai Kahn, who again is leading before Fredrick and my self. He is not a treath to me anymore, and thats the main thing. I'm just 10 - 15 units away from going to war with Mehmed II, which is the number 4 guy in the game and now my closest neighbor. Attack is the best defense, and as one of the smart guys on the forums has in his signature "Land is Power". So being more aggresive may be your way to victory!?

Besides being aggresive, I try to get a shrine each time.
At least if there are more than 5 civs.
I got Hindu in my ongoing game and have 5000 (+43 each turn) gold and 100% research.
The 5000 will get my horse archers to cavalry in no time. Good luck Mehmed!

I'm not a very good player, but I'm improving from game to game.
I'll bet you are to!
Good luck!