Stuck on noble, confused of some concepts... help?

[Bladel]

Hello, I've been playing civ4 for a few weeks now and have been having some troubles on noble, and just picked up the "fat cross" thing, and ive seen many of the strategies presented and im still left with a few questions

GP farms: How come these cities should contain a lot of food, but little production? I'm under the impression that the best way to birth a lot of GP's is to have a large number of wonders, but in that case wouldn't you want it to have fairly high industry?

Commerce Cities: I'm having a hard time figuring out where to place these, I have yet to find an area (on land at least) with more than 1 coin on it... many water tiles have two so wouldn't it be just as beneficial to use those water tiles that have that extra food also? I just havent been able to find land areas with more than 1 coin on it really

Production Cities: These are supposed to be the main army-building cities, assuming a GP farm is made to have all you're wonders, do they really serve much other purpose?

Holy City: I just don't understand this one much at all, as I have no idea how to make a city a chief holy one

Technology: I simply have NO idea what sequence to get my techs in, I normally play as roosevelt so i have agriculture and fishing first... i just find myself picking random ones cuz they are recommended and have no end goal to them... a list of techs to get in whatever order that are beneficial would be much appreciated

if anyone could clear some of these things up for me it'd be greatly appreciated and i think it would really help my game

 

[jayseedubya]

First, GP farms are designed to generate Great Person Points w/ specialists, not wonders. While wonders help, it hinders you from choosing which GP you get. For example, say you build the Oracle in 1000 BC, and in 1450 AD, you really need a Great Artist for a culture bomb, you load up on Great Artists. Normally, you'd pop a GA, but w/ a bad draw, you could get a Prophet instead. In one game, I had Chichen Itza and the Oracle in the same GP farm, and generated something like 9 Great Prophets in one game.

Commerce cities are generally based around a river or on grassland. Rivers naturally give one commerce, so cottages are more worthwhile to work in the short run even before they develop (especially w/ a financial leader...starts w/ 3 commerce). Grassland tiles give two food each, so you can farm a few to get population up and then cottage the place, stagnate growth and generate tons of research.

Production cities are generally used for military production or as the third city in a cultural victory. I like to put ironworks in my top production center, but not necessarily the heroic epic or West Point. The high hammer/turn enables you to churn out modern units w/out too much focus on stuff like markets, theaters, etc.

In order to have a holy city, you must found a religion (be first to discover meditation, polytheism, monotheism, theology, code of laws, philosophy, or divine right). Your newest city will be made into the "Holy city" of the religion (designated w/ the symbol of the religion and a star). If you get a great prophet, you can send it to the holy city of the religion and construct the holy shrine of that religion (King Solomon's temple, church of nativity, etc.). For each city that has your religion, you get +1 gold/turn which is great for keeping research high and it also generates culture, allows priest specialists, and spreads the religion a bit w/out missionaries.

Hoped this spiel helps.
-jcw

 

[glokkonn]

tech order (note I am only a few steps ahead of you)

1) - mining bronze working for axemen and for whipping production items

2) - pottery to make cottages (and eventually towns)

3) - any other techs needed for your settlers (wheel, agriculture, etc, not all will be needed unless you have 1 of each type of resource around you)

4) - writing for libraries or mysticism for obelisks (so your newer cities can get culture and grow) - this might want to be moved up a slot or two if you get a fast second city

5) - mathematics -> construction -> currency -> code of laws

Construction for catapaults as a military weapon, currency and code of laws for money

6) in any order hte rest of the techs to get civil service and machinery for macemen (do the tree to civil service first if on land, do some of the sea type techs first if by sea, and if you have no bronze do iron working much sooner so you have some military unit to produce)

If you cannot build axemen or swordmen, then you need archery.
If you have neither bronze or iron then macemen cannot be built and use a different strategy.

I am still wrestling with the optimal tech order, but it seems to me that basically - go for the quickest path to the military upgrades while getting it in an order that maximizes your economy so that when you get the ability to build new military units you can build lots and lots of them.

Other considerations: if you have a lot of food in your cities happiness will be enough of a problem that you might wanna do some religious techs to get to monarchy somewhere in the mix. In this case you can get to code of laws directly from the monarch path, though you will still want construction and currency eventually.

If you need galley for something than sailing becomes more important (or lighthouses for that matter to increase foods on ocean/coastal squares)

This is my mode of thinking atm. But I am not that great of a player so take it with a grain of salt!

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Holy City: I just don't understand this one much at all, as I have no idea how to make a city a chief holy one

If you are the first civ to discover a technology with a religion (example: Meditation), the computer will randomly make one of your cities the holy city for that religion. You can learn a lot more about how religions work by reading The cuban isolationists. I haven't found the tricks to playing the religious minigame well to be particularly obvious.

Technology: I simply have NO idea what sequence to get my techs in, I normally play as roosevelt so i have agriculture and fishing first... i just find myself picking random ones cuz they are recommended and have no end goal to them... a list of techs to get in whatever order that are beneficial would be much appreciated

Going with the recommended techonology while you figure out how the game works is fine (it isn't necessary to learn everything at once).

The right technology to research in any given situation is a complicated one, where the answer will depend on your leaders traits, your civs unique unit, what technologies you have already learned, what resources are at hand, what kind of map you are on, what kind of game you want to play, etc. To a certain degree it is chess - you evaluate the position, decide whether you want to exploit your advantages or shore up your weaknesses, and off you go.

However, it is very common in the ancient era for two technologies to dominate: Pottery and Bronze Working. BW shows you where the copper is (a very big deal), allows you to use the slavery civic (you can convert people to hammers), and allows you to chop forrests (converting trees to hammers). Pottery allows you to improve plots with cottages (creating commerce out of thin air), and to build granaries (so people grow back more quickly - especially useful when you have just converted them into hammers).

If you don't have an obviously better idea at the start, you should normally heading toward one of these two technologies.

Some encouragement: this game is really big. Don't be discouraged by the fact that it's not all obvious at once.

 

[Desert-Fox]

Computer often chooses your last built city for holy one.

But easy way to win in noble

Take romans... research iron working. Build 15 praetorians, invade your nearest neighbour. research construction and get catapults. Then go for military tradition and get cavalries... and so on... not very hard

Edit : In duel map I won emperor against Washington with this one

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Edit: failure in reading comprehension, comment removed.

 

[Nials]

I found Sisiutil's Strategy Guide for Beginners extremely helpful.

It is definitely a good place to start.

 

[Sabertooth]

Bladel:

GP farms: How come these cities should contain a lot of food, but little production? I'm under the impression that the best way to birth a lot of GP's is to have a large number of wonders, but in that case wouldn't you want it to have fairly high industry?

Actually, I think, a combination of wonders and specialists is the best way to birth a lot of GPs. The excess of food is necessary to support the large number of specialists. Of course, I agree with you that it’s helpful to have a mined hill or two in your “fat cross” so that your city can produce infrastructure as needed.

Commerce Cities: I'm having a hard time figuring out where to place these, I have yet to find an area (on land at least) with more than 1 coin on it... many water tiles have two so wouldn't it be just as beneficial to use those water tiles that have that extra food also? I just havent been able to find land areas with more than 1 coin on it really

You need to build and work cottages. The longer you work them, the more commerce they produce.

Deciding between a farm and a cottage on a river tile is always a judgment call, and requires taking into consideration many different factors.

Technology: I simply have NO idea what sequence to get my techs in, I normally play as roosevelt so i have agriculture and fishing first... i just find myself picking random ones cuz they are recommended and have no end goal to them... a list of techs to get in whatever order that are beneficial would be much appreciated

This is a very good question. Figuring out the answer to this question is key to playing Civ IV. Unfortunately, such a list would be really hard to produce, because the sequence of technologies one chooses is again dependent on many different factors, like, for example, the kind of terrain surrounding your first city, your own early tech goals, and so forth.

But, as a general rule of thumb, I can say this: money is power. And money is derived from cottages. So if I were to start with Roosevelt, all other things being equal, I would probably begin by building a worker (or a fishing boat, depending) while beelining through the Wheel to Pottery. I’d then take a look at my surrounds and calculate how much food I would need to grow to my current happiness level. I would probably build a couple of farms and a couple of cottages while researching Mining, followed by either Bronze Working or Animal Husbandry, depending on the availability of livestock.

But again, this all depends on my goals, my surroundings, and, of course, the civ I’m playing. For example, let’s say that Washington is founded next to a gold resource. Research Mining and The Wheel first, mine the gold and hook it up and you’ve killed three birds with one stone: production, bonus commerce, and a happiness resource all in one.

In short: once you’ve figured out how to select your technologies, you’ve really begun to play the game.

 

[Bladel]

Okay thanks everyone I think for the most part I've got the hang of the strategies from the tips listed and just more play experiance... but one thing thats seriously throwing me is how people are getting such high gold / turn income somewhere near I think 500 A.D I had about 9 gold / turn income with my slider at 90%, and I know it's not going to be very high at that age, but I just thought money would be more in abundance.... idk if im doing something wrong, next time i have to check to see how many of my cottages had matured by then, anyway thanks for all the advice

 

[malekithe]

Most of the time, you'll never need to worry about running a surplus. In certain situations having gold on hand is useful, but it's rarely neccessary at lower levels. As long as you've got money in your treasury and your economy is growing (look at the budget advisor in the far left pane), you're fine. If you need more money, lower the research percent. 90% is basically the highest setting you'll ever use through most of the game.

+9 at 90% isn't bad for the reasons you think it is at all. By 500AD you should probably be running at a much lower percentage as you rapidly expand your empire. Most-likely, that +9 means your empire is only generating ~200 (it's hard to tell exactly without a little more information) commerce in total. Raising that number is the most important thing to do. If you pay too much attention to the percent, you'll forget this fact. DO NOT be afraid of low research rates, as long as you're building cities properly (eg. specializing), your economy will continue to progress.

 

[Nials]

9 gpt at 90% is probably too much income

Like the above poster said, do not be afraid of low science rates. Some people like to expand until their science slider drops to 70%, others 60%, and some even 50%.
It depends on the situation. Commerce cities do not usually take that long to pay for themselves, so given that they are able to do so, more are obviously better!
One of the largest drains on your economy will most likely be city maintenance. Ask yourself if founding another city is worth it at the moment. Most likely the answer will be yes because at a point the city starts to catch up and pay off.
Founding another city also prevents the AI from settling in the same spot, another element to consider.

Remember, there is no single tip that can improve you tenfold as a player. It all adds up. I will say that city specialization is one of the most vital things to master though, if not the most

 

[cabert]

my tip : cIV is mostly about waging wars!
don't be afraid to attack
And wars means death.
don't be afraid to lose some troops.

 

[Older than Dirt]

Yes, cabert is right. It is much easier to be a persistent warmonger. Just don't try to keep very many cities. Keep only the very near or very productive ones. You have to practice balancing your cash flow and research while expanding.

 

[eric_]

Sisiutil, that "beginner's guide" is EXCELLENT. Well done. My problem continues to be a lack of focus, in terms of losing focus on my chosen victory type mid-game, or failing to commit to a victory type early on. I have jack-of-all-trades syndrome.

 

[Desert-Fox]

I just played 2 games in prince... leader was Montezuma. I played in small map, 2 continents. In both games 1 got one neighbour. First time romans and the second time I got Elisabeth.

First time it was very easy... I just take his 3 cities and my research went down only to 50%.. because of 15 jaguars... So I just occupied that island and got all what I wanted... finally I won in space race ... only bad thing what I did I built UN ... in other island alex, ivan and washington dealt who was best of the three... first washington was killed and then I bribed alex to attack ivan and also joined into that war... honestly i would attack alex too but I've nearly won space so I took easier way But UN ... alex was the leader there always ... and he was near to get DW ... because they were good friends with peter... but fortunately they both were backards so I could bribe him to declare war on peter so no longer peter gave votes on alex

Second time I got DW ... I killed elisabeth and then when I met new world I was backward... but there were isabella, toku and louis 14, the peace was impossible there... Toku and isabella wanted to get away in tech race but isabella was nearly same as me... but she didn't want to trade. Fortunately she asked aid I usually do not give but after I give a tech she opened her tech trade and I catched louis and toku. Then fortunately they killed off isabella. Later I bribed louis 2 times that he would attack toku, so I peacefully got tech lead. I built UN and I was te secretary general.... Louis was my main rival but he was pleased with me... so I waited the time when toku was 2nd place so the election was between me and toku. Then I got my diplo win.

But in conclusion... do not be afraid to be agressive... don't think about ethics, if you think you will lose always.. be sneaky. If the moment is upon yours always use it.Because in harder levels AI can do it with you. There is not such win as honorable victory...