Sudden reputation/attitude change..?

[BigChiefLizzy]

Playing a large island map, king level as Carthage. I managed to take Spain's capital very early on with three quinquiremes, starting warrior and a scout upgraded to an archer from a hut. Left them with one city and made peace.

Classical era got some iron from an allied city state and upgraded a couple of warriors to swordsmen, and my archers to composite bowmen. Greece, another near neighbour only had 2 cities so sailed over and wiped them out.

By this time I had made contact with the English, Inca, and Babylonians all of whom have denounced me as a 'Warmongering menace to the world'
This is fine and perfectly fair... however just as I am nearly in the Renaissance era (researching education), I meet Theadora, and she's friendly. We establish embassies and I sell her a luxury for max gold (240). Great I think, a possible RA partner for later.

The next turn she denounces me.

The turn after she contacts me just to say how she hates seeing my face. And she's now hostile (Friendly to Hostile in 2 turns).

Why the sudden change? Maybe she made contact with some of the civs near me and has seen that they have all denounced me recently? Don't really want to have her after me as Elizabeth is looking pissed as well, and has just entered the Renaissance era herself... and I just remembered what her UU's are

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Did Theo make friends with anyone who denounced you?

I had Germany as a friend. They stuck with me through thick and thin. Everyone else called me a warmonger, but not Bismarck. Then the DoF expired and he DoF'd one of my enemies and ever since, he's been hostile.

 

[BobDole]

Usually on the first turn you meet an AI they'll show up as "friendly," but give it a turn and they'll quickly learn to hate you (if they're supposed to, i.e., they're friends with someone you denounced). It's just the way it is. I guess they don't pick up all those modifiers right away or something.

 

[Number9]

You didn't specify who declared war on who so I'm going to assume you DoW.
- diplo for dow spain
- diplo for greece
- diplo for taking captial
- dow for capital on greece
- big diplo for wiping them out
- diplo for denouncments

All these combine the world hates you and considered you a warmonger whether you met them or not with a few exceptions where some nations don't care about warmongers. So while these diplo hits fade over time, it takes a very long time.

I have not played against Theadora so I'm unsure of her personality but most likely she already hates you before you met her and your initial meeting with her is a fake friendly and after trading embassy, she probably didn't think much of you or covets your land. Decides its not worth her while to be putting on a show anymore. I find most of the women leaders are all backstabbers in Civ5 lol.
Also like your suggestion, she may not get the denouncement modifiers until after you met her. So after your meeting turn the game adds them all up and puts her over the threshold and she hates you.

 

[BigChiefLizzy]

Thanks all, good replies.

Did Theo make friends with anyone who denounced you?

I had Germany as a friend. They stuck with me through thick and thin. Everyone else called me a warmonger, but not Bismarck. Then the DoF expired and he DoF'd one of my enemies and ever since, he's been hostile.

Oops. Just checked, she is friends with everybody (who is hostile to me) except Babylon; who merely just dislikes me. That explains a lot.

@Number9 - Yep, you are quite correct, I was the one doing the DOW's. I was going to try and roll over Elizabeth as well after Greece but was worried about getting shot up by longbows. I don't think she had any built by then, but I have left it far too late now

Time to starting building more military before I get multiple DOW's against me; at least I got the great lighthouse and colossus so have plenty of cash for support...

 

[afedyuki]

That's why I never leave any survivors. Whatever extra diplomacy hit (I did not notice any, actually) you might take for eliminating a civilization is much better than this scenario.

Thanks all, good replies.

Oops. Just checked, she is friends with everybody (who is hostile to me) except Babylon; who merely just dislikes me. That explains a lot.

 

[Darkeagle6]

I can't say for sure, but it seems that even if newly-met AI isn't officially friends with everyone, it's quite possible they'll decide to denounce you if they see that a lot of other people have done the same. It makes sense that they would want to get a diplo bonus with 5 Civs by only angering one. I believe that's what Sweden did in my previous game as Boudicca.

 

[NotSure]

Usually on the first turn you meet an AI they'll show up as "friendly," but give it a turn and they'll quickly learn to hate you (if they're supposed to, i.e., they're friends with someone you denounced). It's just the way it is. I guess they don't pick up all those modifiers right away or something.

Ya, I think this is the right answer. On your turn, you meet a civ at their default approach (usually neutral or friendly). On the AI turn the new civ learns you were a jerk a century ago and the hating can begin.

 

[Halcyan2]

Ya, I think this is the right answer. On your turn, you meet a civ at their default approach (usually neutral or friendly). On the AI turn the new civ learns you were a jerk a century ago and the hating can begin.

You'll see this a lot in the Into the Renaissance scenario where there's a big negative modifier for those of another religion.

It's quite common that you'll meet someone as Friendly and then the next turn they start Denouncing you.

If you want to trade with them (sell luxuries or get Open Borders from them) make sure you do it during that first turn.

Also, I've found that I can sometimes avoid the Denouncement if I immediately stack enough positive modifiers - in Into the Renaissance I often immediately gift a luxury upon meeting someone (to get the We Traded Recently bonus) and ideally you will have denounced the same civ as well.

While people have complained a lot about civs getting mad about stuff you did centuries ago, I've recently found that this can work to a player's advantage with the "We fought a common foe" positive modifier. I've met civs for the first time and have had this early on (apparently they compare histories and notice we fought against the same civ even if we didn't know we shared a common enemy at the time).