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Suggest me some settings and self-imposed rules to improve my Warmongering

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by amit9up, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. amit9up

    amit9up Chieftain

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    I can win a peaceful game on Prince usually but suck at wars. Last game I managed to take out a neighbor, but then went for a space win.

    What self-imposed rules do you recommend in my next game :)
    For example map kinds, how frequently should I keep building army.

    1) Always war freaks me out :)
    2) No Queshas or Prats, want a more generic warmongering
     
  2. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Some suggestions

    1) Pangea Map

    2) A true war-Monger leader. Cyrus, Boudica, Ghengis, Shaka.

    3) Watch the power numbers and aim to stay ahead of everyone else.

    4) Dedicate one or two cities to building Military non-stop.

    5) Turn all victory conditions off except Conquest :devil:
     
  3. dirtyparrot

    dirtyparrot Upholding Brannigan's Law

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    1. You must start a war before 1AD

    2. You may not try to remain friends with everyone

    3. You may only build 3 great wonders the whole game

    4. You may not found hinduism, judaism, or buddhism

    5. After discovering construction, no more than 60% of your stack may be non-siege
     
  4. RyanZ

    RyanZ Chieftain

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    All diplomatic relations must stay below 'pleased'
     
  5. Neal

    Neal King of the World

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    Y'know what? I'd say just do it. Throw caution to the wind and pump units. You won't fall ridiculously far behind by waiting on that shiny library for your city that's pumping out 4:science: per turn. Your economy won't crash if you build a couple more catapults. That unreasoning fear was my biggest flaw (and still is, to a degree). Think of it this way: The purpose of your commerce and research should be to finance your armies. Your armies' purpose shouldn't be to safeguard your commerce and research. That make sense?
     
  6. Crusher1

    Crusher1 King

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    I'd keep it simple.

    Start at least 3 wars before 1000 AD (w/ or w/out the same person).
     
  7. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    1) Land based map. Pangaea is probably best for starters. Normal size map, but if you want to add an extra civ or two, go ahead.

    2) All victory conditions enabled, but you must win by domination or conquest.

    3) India (acceptable alternatives are Portugal and Dutch). In other words, learn how to coordinate the regular units first, then worry about learning the exceptions

    4) Enemy workers captured outside of cities must be disbanded (this is a warmonger drill)

    5) Your FOURTH city must be an enemy capital.

    Bonus constraints

    5a) Every 4th city must be an enemy capital
    5b) Your THIRD city must be an enemy capital

    6) No City Raider promotions. Added to get a broader understanding of war mongering; probably the right answer is to play a couple games using the CR line as you like, then take it off the table and learn the rest of the promotion system.

    7) you may not attack units of an earlier age - if the AI is defending with archers, then you need axes, not tanks.

    Basic game plan: you are going to be in real trouble if you let the AI get too far ahead of you in territory, so that capture an enemy capital restriction means you need to get off your butt and choose a target before everybody outgrows you. Typically, the key technologies are going to be Bronze Working (Axemen for your first war) Construction (Catapults for your second and subsequent wars), Nationalism (Drafting! see also Globe Theater).

    The good news: when you go after the AI's war engine, you are hitting it where it is *really* dumb.
     
  8. Crusher1

    Crusher1 King

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    @ Voice

    Why point #3? India is one of the strongest War Mongers in the game (Asoka).
     
  9. Elkad

    Elkad Emperor

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    Because there is no military UU to get a specific advantage with.
     
  10. Deep_Blue

    Deep_Blue Knight

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    When playing warmongering game I get mush more excitement than when playing peacefully, Nothing is more exciting than getting involved in heavy wars with complex calculation.

    In one game 10 AIs declared war on me at once and their forces at my borders were 20 times my forces, I saw many stacks of doom each with at least 20 artilleries. I was in panic but refused to surrender. I drafted units like mad, built infantries continuously and pulled out from my outer cities. I used pull and hit strategy until I wiped their forces and came up winner against all the odds; it was a game that I will never forget. Now this is a real game not like boring wait games of cultural or space.

    From my personal mistakes I suggest the following for warmongering:

    1- Lose your building habits in 10 days

    2- Not every city requires a Market + Grocer + Bank + Adequate.

    3- You must be busy building units. DO NOT build any building unless the city needs it:
    - Build a Grocer / adequate only when you see a green face
    - Build a market only when you see red face
    - Build a bank only when the city has decent commerce
    - Build a library / Uni only when the city produces decent science
    - Build a forge only in productive cities
    - Never build temples, monasteries or any cultural building

    4- Never build more than 1-2 strategic wonders and there should be a purpose (that serves warmongering) for building them (for example building the pyramids to switch to Police state so early).

    5- Build military tradition in the most productive city and try to build a military academy in it too using a great general

    6- Concentrate military promotions in one direction don't mix between them, for example defensive continue defensive, healing continue with healing promotions and so on.

    7- Never attack before softening the city with siege, use 2 or 3 suicidal siege weapons to minimize the losses in your forces when you attack and to maximize winning odds.

    8- Try to keep your Elite units and preserve them for upgrades, my elites are always a bunch of axmen with city raider 3 that get promoted to macemen then to riflemen then to infantries, and I don't lose many of them through out the game.
     
  11. Crusher1

    Crusher1 King

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    Irrelevant. The reason he is one of the strongest warmongers in the game is because organized leads to a great economy and shines even more as you continue to pick up additional cities. Spiritual is also a top tier warmonger trait. India is not weak by any means. Their UU leads to quicker improvements and chops and thus better production as well. Boudica would seem to be one of the best if not best warmonger in the game due to her UU/UB combo and traits, but sadly, she has severe problems maintaining a large empire. Some of the
    apparent best warmongers in the game suck very badly ^^.

    My style of warmongering is about taking over massive amounts of land pre Liberalism....ideally close to 20 cities. Eventually the land pays for itself and its GG. In order to do this you must be able to maintain a large empire.

    Julius is good ^^
    Darius is good ^^
    Asoka is good ^^
    Zara is good ^^
    Fredrick is good ^^
    Mehemmed is good ^^
    Roosevelt is good ^^
    Charly is good ^^

    You don't even need a UU, they are just the topping on the cake. What you do need is a Huge empire.
     
  12. AlienSexFilth

    AlienSexFilth Warlord

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    1) ON LEADER & CIV : Get a warmonger leader. IMP/CHA/AGR/PRO are the traits you are looking for. Look for a secondary economic trait to help you out for your economy (ORG/FIN/PHI). SPI is also nice if you are good with civics, so you can abuse the Nationhood/Slavery armies.
    (1a)DO NOT GET ROMANS/INCAS/PERSIANS
    (1b)Look for a civ that is starting with Mining/The wheel/Hunting OR Agriculture. Beeline accoringly to AH/BW/Archery and plan for an early rush or defensive war.
    2)ON MAP : Play a Terra (bit harder) or Pangaia map. This will help you know your enemies from the start.
    (2a) : Get scouts out fast and use them to scout the whole continet ASAP. Know your enemies is the most important in warfare. Also, use scouts to fogbust barbs and also keep the fog away from cities you want to settle
    3) ON MILITARY PRODUCTION : Have always some cities dedicated on building units. Only build Forge and happyness/health buildings when you see the according faces
    (3a): Have an early production city cranking out only Atacking units and your UU if applicable(Axes/Maces/Horse Archers/etc)
    (3b): By the time you hit Construction, have a second city building ONLY Siege units
    (3c): By the time you reach Feudalism OR Machinery (whicever first), have a third city building only DEFENDING UNITS (Longbowmen or Crossbowmen if you have iron + Spears/Pikes)
    (3d): Make sure EITHER city tht produces atackers/defenders is also a port to later produce your navy. The other will produce your Airforce
    4) ON ECONOMY : Play your leader traits. If he's financial, Cottage up every non producing city. If Philosophical, use more specialists. You catch my drift..
    5) ON WONDERS : Only build ANY wonder if you have the related resource. Exceptions are : Great Wall if Imperialistic, Stonehenge if Charismatic (or have a monument as UU-Egypt/Native american/Ethiopia) and Pyramids if Philosophical and plan on a specialist eco. Still, only build wonders that help you achieve your purpose.
    (5a) Have only 1 city to wonderspam. No other city should ever try to build a wonder..
    6) ON VICTORY Enable ALL victory conditions
    (6a) You should only win though with Conquest OR Domination
    7) ON ESPIONAGE : Always run at 10% espionage (unless defecit research at 100% to win a tech race).
    (7a) Use the espinonage screen and adjust the way you spent your EPs. Rank 1 on all leaders. Add one more if they have a diffrent religion than you. Add one more if you share a border. Add one more if you plan to attack the target OR are in War with them allready. Add one more if you have close borders
    (7b) Use spies to sabotage the military resources of your target at peace and Support City Revolts at war (either to skip bombardment of defenses or stop unit production)
    8) ON DIPLOMACY : Your neighbour is your enemy.
    (8a) You will attack your neighbours first. Find out who their enemies are and ally with them. Find out who their friends are and ruin their relations. (a trick here to help : use a spy to sabotage the resources they use to trade with their good friends. Use missionaries to change the religion of their friends as well)
    (8b) You should always have 1~2 good friends and war allies. Make smart choices : the furthest they are, the more time you will be friends. Try to always give into their demands.
    (8c) Whenever you can bribe a war, DO IT!
    9) ON AGGRESIVE EXPANSION : Never keep a city you do not need.
    (9a)Holy cities, Cities with a wonder, cities that can help you establish a better border are always good.
    (9b) cities that do not conect with your heartland are not good. Either raise them to dust of if you plan to capitulate their leader, let them join back.
    10) ON GARISSON : Use the minimum number of defenders in every city to keep it under your control. That is usually 1
    (10a)You can keep more defenders if under HR
    (10b)You can keep more defenders to avoid culture revolts/swaps
    (10c)You can keep more defenders at borders of any civ that is not your vassal.
    (10c+)Keep defenders that make sense. If Justinian is next door, build Pikemen/Phants to take down his Cataphracts. Dont build Maces to defend vs Knights and vice versa.
    11)ON PROMOTIONS/STACK COMPOSITION : Your stack should have a ration of 1/1/1 on attackers/defenders/siege. Attackers would be either units of foot with CR promotion or anything that can get a withdrawal chance. defenders should be Shock axes/maces/xbows, formation spear/pikes. AND garrison units. Your siege should have a balance of CR/Collateral and bombarment units, with emphasis on the collateral ones.
    (11a)Keep with one line of promotions. If you start a medic, get medic2 (and three if possible), March.. if you go combat, go all the way up untill 5. If you go Guerilla, go all the way up to 3.'
    (11b)ALWAYS have some medic units in your stack(in case you loose one to unfortunate event). Medic 3 is overrated to spent a GG. Use a C1.Med1&2 or a woodsman 3 and then go for medic 1+2.
    12)ON GREAT GENERALS : Settle all you can untill you can get level 3 units out of the gate of your heroic epic city.
    (12a) If Imperialistic, attach more GGs to units with leadership promotions and have them FIGHT. You will get more GGs this way...
    13) ON UNITS : If a unit is not highly promoted (that is : if you can produce a unit with more xp than the one you have), delete when it is past it's age and replace with a new one.
    That would be pretty much it. GL!!!
     
  13. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    I quickly swifted through the answers, but I'd like to suggest something different.

    1) play someone you like, nothing special about UU on a normal pangea (normal speed, epic or marathon, let's forget about quick for a while)
    2) Aim for HBR + archery ASAP
    3) only authorized builds are barracks, stables and horse Archers (HA) (exception : 1 defensive unit in every city)
    4) you don't need further science, but feudalism could be good, if you manage it
    5) you want to win by conquest, but leave everything on.

    The goal here is not to be a slow and cautious warmonger, but a bloodthirsty razer of cities.
     
  14. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    I think Cabert's advice is very good: if you want to be a warmonger, just kill the builder inside of you... restrictions on buildings are the fastest way to do that. He is a little extreme, but you need nothing else to win than barracks, granaries, libraries, courts. Only wonders allowed: HE, NE.

    Good luck :)
     
  15. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    No he is not. He has great traits that allow a stronge economy while war-mongering, allow a larger empire, and allow swapping war/economy civics. He was suggested because India has a non-warring UU. Joao and Willem were alternatives because they have Naval UUs. He was suggested so the OP get's away from relying on UUs.

    By the way, great advice by Voice of Unreason. Better than my sugegsted war-mongers.
     
  16. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Great Post, but my reason to respond is

    GREAT SIG. I can relate!
     
  17. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

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    Funny, I actually think India has a great UU for an early rush. If you do it right, you can start your rush with whatever early unit you prefer (axe, sword, chariot, or HA) about 10 turns earlier thanks to the fast worker's speed in improving things and in chopping. Asoka is especially powerful with his ability to manage a large empire. If there are a bunch of forests around your capital, a worker/worker start with India can mean super fast rushes.
     
  18. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    I agree, he is a powerful war-monger, and I think the Fast Worker is the best UU in the game. I have frequently said he is the best one who has no warring trait. But he is not the best.
     
  19. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    Think about the decisions you are making. Your decisions should be geared toward war. That doesn't mean you can't make friends (that you backstab later) or that you can't focus on economy at times (in order to get advanced military tech, or avoid falling behind in tech). It just means that you are always thinking: "Who is the next target? What is the best way to take them out?"

    If you are going to build a wonder: "How does this help me take out my next opponent?"

    If you are going to build a building: "How does this help me take out my next opponent?"

    If you are going to select a tech to research: "How does this help me take out my next opponent?"

    If you are thinking about diplo relations: "How does this help me take out my next opponent?"

    If you are looking at the power graph: "How does this help me take out my next opponent?"

    If you are building more workers: "How does this help me take out my next opponent?"

    If you are cranking out an army: "How does this help me take out my next opponent?"

    If you are contemplating switching civics: "How does this help me take out my next opponent?"

    etc.
     
  20. uncarved block

    uncarved block Prince

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    What did the trick for me was rather simple: take a Standard Pangaea map and add two more AIs. Unless you have some kind of mad REXing skills, the most you'll get is three, maybe four cities before all that open space is gone. After that, you likely won't have much choice about whether to fight or not, because most of the AIs in the game aren't going to be happy with three cities either-- and you'll have at least two neighbors like that. If you really want to get things hopping, make Shaka and Monty the two extra civs. You may still win by Space, but it won't be peaceful up til then . . .

    This works just as well with other maps: Lakes is a good one, Great Plains is another. If you want to keep things simple diplomatically, Inland Sea without world wrap allows you to attack one neighbor and pacify the other-- at least to start.
     

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