[BTS] I want to improve my early game with your advices

[dontworryabouttsunami]

You should prioritize the special (resource) tiles. That pig is a much stronger tile than the Dye farm and should have been improved first (if you had the technology already). For the same reason, the next improvement you should make is mining the Gold. After that, cottaging the floodplain is probably best because you've improved all your special tiles. Two workers should be plenty, no need to build another one in Djenne. Build a granary. Then I would probably grow Timbuktu and work cottages there while whipping and chopping more Settlers in Djenne (try to keep working the Pig and Gold there, any excess pop can be whipped, but try to whip at least 2 pop at a time (need 4 or high population)).

I would say that one Worker can mine the Gold for Djenne and the other can build cottages in Timbuktu (starting with the floodplain).

Edit: Also it's usually not advised to research Iron Working yourself, at least on higher difficulties. Even at Monarch it's usually better to research Alphabet and trade for Iron Working (because IW is so expensive).

 

[lymond]

I would say that one Worker can mine the Gold for Djenne and the other can build cottages in Timbuktu (starting with the floodplain).

Good point, but chopping should still take priority after specials are improved.

Also, MoI, Tim should grow now. Whipping at this point should be 4>2 (basic rule of thumb is don't whip off specials, or primarily food specials. Farmed dye is not really a "special in that sense, but it's a very nice combined yield so I'd try to always have that worked, plus the later FP cottage - by either city)

B1 could go onto the PH 1N instead, since copper is a strong tile on its own. This is counter to the usual food first idea, but it's an odd location anyway otherwise.

Post saves, including the start. (edit: ah..I found the start)

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

So the western floodplain should be farmed after settling the 3rd city, right?

When would you research Mystics to get the other food source and the oasis? Or would you just trade that too?

So let me summarize:
You would let both cities grow to size 4 before going for the next settler, right? Is there any case, where one won't whip a settler in such a starting situation?

After your feedback my plan would be:

Timbuktu: Chopping the granary, thenafter chopping the library, doing regularly whips where pop doesn't fall under 2. Would you whip again before cooldown is 0 ?

Djenne: Developing gold, thenafter chopping granary and settler and thenafter building road to the gold. Whipping the granary, when pop hits 3, then regrow to 3. While the settler is built, use the floodplain(s), which are soon fully available.

Right?

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

Here's the actual save:

 

[Pangaea]

Minor point perhaps, but your slider has gone down to 90%. Once the first city has been settled, it's a good idea to use what is called binary research: either run the slider at 0% or 100%. It reduces rounding errors. I've gotten the habit of doing this for the entire game, but it's most important early on when we are working with low numbers.

Based off the above picture, your cities appear to have decent enough food, so I'd cottage the floodplain instead of farming it. FP cottages are great, and it also takes two turns less than farming it. 7 turns is a heavy investment so early in the game. And you just get +1 to show for it. The cottage there can also be shared between both cities, which is nice if you need to swap things around due to whipping or whatever.

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

I read about Binary Research and came to the point that it's relatively negligible and sometimes maybe a bit dangerous (AI demands). The most effect will be to set the slider down before getting a research upgrade building and thenafter running at 100% again. So this applys here to my planned library. I need to think about it.

Here's my source:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/binary-research-or-not.447498/page-2

When you have another better source, I would read more about it to come to a deeper understanding.

_____________

Another ideas about my plans ahead?

 

[Gumbolt]

Binary will save you research. E.g if you plan an academy. Saving gold before this or a library will help you gain science. As any saved gold will allow you more science with the 50% bonus.

Same for techs. At times it's useful to save gold to see what tech ai might choose. E.g music or lib race. Why start researching if you might lose race?

If you constantly research at 40% it could take ages to research one tech. If you crash your economy due to rapid expansion running science at 10-20% makes no sense.

Sure you can run scientists but better to save gold and use it for good use.

When does the ai ever demand gold?

 

[AcaMetis]

When does the ai ever demand gold?

In my case, every time a vaguely warmonger-y AI and/or Joao are in the game. I don't think I've played a non-iso game without getting my entire treasury demanded/DoWed on over a refused demand yet.

 

[Gumbolt]

I think as a warmonger i tend to have little gold. When i do i rarely hand it over. Can't remember the last gold demand i ever had.

Mostly get tech demands or resources. Wonder how the demand mechanism works?

 

[dontworryabouttsunami]

When does the ai ever demand gold?

I had a game recently where I saved up a big store of gold for binary research and Gilgamesh came knocking to demand all of it just as I was about to start researching a critical military tech.

 

[Nick723]

You should be safe from gold demands until someone has currency?

In my experience the main issue with binary research is forgetting to turn it back on

 

[Pangaea]

Here's my source:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/binary-research-or-not.447498/page-2

That thread is 10 years old, and still essentially only has pros for binary research. I find it's a nice habit due to the advantages talked about in there. Demands will come whether you have gold or techs, so you just have to deal with it there and then. Sure, it hurts if it's a super aggressive AI and you can't afford a war right now, but that is the case if an AI demands an expensive or important tech too.

If the only benefit was the option of changing research depending on trade options, I'd still use it. It's so nice to be able to change techs to what you truly need. Kinda sucks to be half way through a tech that becomes available in trade, but then not have the money to research something else because you had the slider at 60% or whatever all the time. I like the adaptability.

 

[lymond]

When does the ai ever demand gold?

It's not that uncommon at all in my experience. Like you, I tend to use my gold, but I may have some turns when I have an abundance after some trades or a GM mission. Certain AIs with high demand thresholds like Monty or Joao might demand it, if not Pleased. (I actually wonder if Monty even does this a Pleased) Sitting Bull might demand gold.

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

Update on the learning curve:

I played a game of the Nobles club recently, at monarch difficulty and had won it easily at 1862 by conquest, having infantery before all others. The map is quite interesting, cause you find no copper in the near and no horses, which can be scaring. Here, if you want to give a look at it:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/nobles-club-285-mansa-musa-of-mali.673250/

Nontheless I won because of your advices here about

- building a compact empire
- priorizing food and counting green tiles
- applying binary research
- chopping much more than I did before
- more planning with rivers, roads and traderoutes

It seems, that with your hints I am now at a solid monarch level, maybe I should try emperor?
Because of that growth, this Prince game above won't give me anything to play further.

Thanks to @BornInCantaloup for showing an alternative way for the early begins. So it can be better to whip not that early.

__________________

Well, it seems, that I need to switch to other leaders, cause Manny begins to bore me now.

What did I like at Mansa?

(1) Starts with mining and wheel, which makes BW easy achievable.
(I played Huanya recently and saw, he needs a complete other way to play with. Without wheel pottery is a much longer way, meaning less commerce, even though he is financial)

(2) Spiritual makes it really easy to change things, like building buildings (OR, Universal Suffrage, Slavery) vs. building units (Vassalage, Theocracy, Slavery) vs. researching things and develop in commerce (Emancipation/caste, Free Speech, Free Religion).

(3) Being financial is extremely strong. Combined with the colossus or even when building huts on river tiles, this trait skyrocket the research.

(4) The UU is massive strong. Not for offensive, but for defensive and barb management. Just settle and build skirmishers regularly. This way you are not attackable and need copper/iron later for own attacks. The UB is okay. I built it in my production citys, thenafter in every else later.

___________________

I want to change leader now to another financial one. Let's take Huayna Capac now.

 

[AcaMetis]

You really ought to try playing with less good leaders if you're interested in testing whether you're really able to consistently win on a given difficulty. HC especially is the singular most atypical leader to play as by a country mile and a half, a game played as him translates to any other leader only vaguely at best.

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

3. Random game: Huayna Capac - much slower development!

Huge size, 18 civs, Fractal, huts/events off

Huayna Capac
(Industrious, Financial)

1.0. Starting situation:

Two food resources and a floodplain, which could be cottaged! Well, that's my game. Potential starting spots:

A) SIP: Settling at the plains, which will be useless long time
B) 1S : Reaching the floodplain and maybe getting more grasslands in the west
C) 1SE : Getting +1H, staying more secure in cap

I decided to move Quechua 1SW:

Nothing interesting. We decide for variant 3, settling 1SE. Quechua shall look around the river and thenafter the north (clockwise around starting spot) to look for spots for the second city:

Whoho! One additional pig:

Starting is clear:

Worker -> Quechua
AH -> Mining -> BW

And here's the problem #1 with Huayna. Not only that I need to copy and paste his name everytime, cause I don't remember the spelling *cough*
He cannot chop! He cannot whip! He can do nothing of the fun things at start. He even cannot build a fast cottage, cause he needs wheels for that and have none. Mansa was quite easier in this fact.

How would you play Huayna ?

______________________

I think the start is straightforward:

- Developed corn, then cow (cause I built settler and cow give additionally 1C), then pig
- Build Quechuas until city reaches size 3, then settler

Here's turn 24:

I am in the north, Montezuma seems to be in the east, Pacal in the south. I can build 3 cities easily.
Remember: I setup 18 civs on huge, so it could be dense populated, haha!

The potential city spots are A,B, C or D.

________________

Spot A: sharing the corn, after building monument and researching hunting getting fur.

Spot B: this or 1N, depending how fast I need it. It's a coastal city with clam, later wine and spices. Should be a production city at first, with 1 boat, 1 farm and some mines.

Spots C or D are my favorite for the second city:

C starts directly with the shared pig, gets gold and stone. This way I could go for pyramids. I could build them directly at spot C or in capital.
D starts with food and is at a coast. It can get stone later (but I should build monument directly. The unknown area seems to be a hill and grasslands.

What would you do?

Now its turn 24. In 9 turns settler will be ready, in 14 turns BW.

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

Edit: Here's a thought.

When I want to build pyramids, I need masonry to start and wheel to transport the stones. This means, I need many turns for that, so many, that D can complete the monument and expand, while I still work for the requirements. Maybe it can be interesting to mine the gold first before the yummy wet corn to get more research and build the monument faster.

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

You can give me feedback about my thoughts in the last posting, but I think, my way to do it was quite straightforward.

I thought, that stonehenge could be a solution. And how it cames, a copper is right at home, on the best hill, I had previously mined. Lucky lucky lucky...

So, whats the state?
- We have BW and go for masonry now
- We have stonehenge
- We have a farm at spot D

After Quechua in cap we will build workers to chop the pyramids. Second city will switch to mine the gold for faster research, cause wheel and masonry need 18 moves from now on... this way we need a good workforce to get the stones soon.

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

It worked:

I didn't apply slavery yet. But in 8 turns pyramids are ready, this way I can apply representation and slavery same time.

____________

Thenafter we need to talk about the threats:

Monte in the east. He has limited space, so he could attack soon. I am his only victim. He is founder of hinduism.


And Julius in the south, neighbor of Pacal, maybe he will convert soon. He has elephants. Let's take up defence soon. But I am sure, the pyramids are a really solid early advantage. Now we need to build our army. Barracks are on the way. Maybe we can attack Monte before he even thinks about plotting. Let's get axes up!

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

So, pyramids are finished, copper is on. I do a break now and let you comment my game so far.

Here's the global situation:

The spots A,B,C are interesting. All of them are usable cause of stonehenge. So we can settle, build some farms and use the ood source after 10 rounds.

Spot C is my favorite for the 3rd city:
Blocking sitting bull and caesar (west and south) on a hill, getting wine, sheep and copper. Solid production location.

Spot A is my second favorite, but it bears the danger of an early war with Monte. But do I need to be scary about that? I didn't saw Monte having copper. So I take some axes, build walls (thanks to my stone) and he has no chance.

Spot B will be a nice commerce place later, but can setup production too.

It seems that I don't have really strong commerce city sites, except of my capital. It could be interesting to build GLH or colossus, or minimum to try to build them. I can do it in the eastern city.

Capital can be a strong GP farm. It has already 2 wonders, when I get it over my heart to change towns to farms, hehe.
Spot C can, when I can settle it, be the Heroic Epic place, where I setup farms and mines everywhere.

________________

So, break now. I appreciate your comments about the game so far

(Bear in mind, that's my first Monarch game with a new leader)