Suggested Additions to FFH2

[srmacpherson]

"Listen, lad. I built this kingdom up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was swamp. Other kings said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em. It sank into the swamp. So, I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So, I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp, but the fourth one... stayed up! And that's what you're gonna get, lad: the strongest castle in these islands!"

What about swamps?
The mosquito ridden murky bogs filled with mud, flies and the occasional dead thing.

They slow your (and your enemy's) forces down, add sickness to nearby cities and don't provide much in the way of food and/or production.

I tried to simulate swamps by using flood plains (as they add sickness in nearby cities) but the food boost outweighs any negative and quickly these nearby cities are 20+. Which doesn't really go well with the whole "These lands are swampy and gross and woe and hardship to those who try to settle there."

Yes, swamps would be a nuisance, but I think that they will provide an additional bit of flavour to the land.

 

[KnightsCore]

Sounds like an interesting idea, I always love a little more flavor.

 

[seZereth]

"Listen, lad. I built this kingdom up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was swamp. Other kings said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em. It sank into the swamp. So, I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So, I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp, but the fourth one... stayed up! And that's what you're gonna get, lad: the strongest castle in these islands!"

What about swamps?
The mosquito ridden murky bogs filled with mud, flies and the occasional dead thing.

They slow your (and your enemy's) forces down, add sickness to nearby cities and don't provide much in the way of food and/or production.

I tried to simulate swamps by using flood plains (as they add sickness in nearby cities) but the food boost outweighs any negative and quickly these nearby cities are 20+. Which doesn't really go well with the whole "These lands are swampy and gross and woe and hardship to those who try to settle there."

Yes, swamps would be a nuisance, but I think that they will provide an additional bit of flavour to the land.

The Fall Further mod adds swamps try that first

 

[Dinkeldog]

How are they different from jungles?

 

[Love]

You can't cut em down

 

[srmacpherson]

The Fall Further mod adds swamps try that first

The swamps in fall further
a) add no sickness
b) don't look great the tile overlaps underlays poorly and looks poor when placed next to other swamp tiles.

The Fall Further wetlands look nice, but don't seem to act the way wetlands really should. In-game they slow you down, but still produce two food, like grasslands.

The Florida Everglades are wetlands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everglades
As you can see, wetlands don't provide any significant amount of food or production. Certainly not as much as grasslands or even more than prairies.

 

[srmacpherson]

How are they different from jungles?

I can see where you're coming from. Jungles add sickness and slow you down. Also, you can't remove them until you have sanitation. So game-mechanic-wise they do act similar.

However, swamps aren't limited to tropical climates. So in a random map, they can appear almost anywhere except perhaps on highlands and frozen wastes (though where I live, we have swamps on the tops of hills, so anything is possible I suppose).
Also, it isn't just the game mechanic that is being sought after, its the look and feel.

 

[Gelvan]

I like the look and feel of the fall further swamps but the thing with overlaying and the new mechanical details you mentioned could surely be addressed. Add a (small) chance, that a unit sinks and dies, like that horse of Arthreu (Neverending story really is quite dark fantasy isn't it?)

 

[Ahriman]

Try the Marshes in the Warhammer mod (still in beta, but a very playable beta).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=232

 

[Nicopol]

I like the look and feel of the fall further swamps but the thing with overlaying and the new mechanical details you mentioned could surely be addressed. Add a (small) chance, that a unit sinks and dies, like that horse of Arthreu (Neverending story really is quite dark fantasy isn't it?)

great post

 

[srmacpherson]

I like the look and feel of the fall further swamps but the thing with overlaying and the new mechanical details you mentioned could surely be addressed. Add a (small) chance, that a unit sinks and dies, like that horse of Arthreu (Neverending story really is quite dark fantasy isn't it?)

Rather annoying. Especially when your carefully cultivated 18th level hero, who has been wading through everything the clan has thrown at you with ease, slips and dies in the mud.

I think wetlands should act more like tundra. +1 food. You can live off them, but not well and in great numbers. No production save for whatever bonuses are found there.

Swamp should be -1 food, +.50 sickness in nearby cities.



PS: Is there any prospect for importing some of the Fall Further features into the FfH2 mod itself?

 

[Skitters]

bogs/moors could have a production benefit - providing peat, which would presumably be the (non magical) fuel of choice of the general Erebus peon.

You could also perhaps have an event where the bones of a dragon has perhaps been preserved within the peat, giving an option to lose a production bonus for a financial bonus as archeologists flock to the site to study it

...in fact I think I may just suggest it in the events anyhow!

 

[Tiarilir]

Swamps would be cool because they add so many event options.

I can think up 3 right here.
1) chance of swamp spreading to another tile. Prevent it with Nature or Sun Mana (Scorch or make the nature obey you)
2) Chance of leeches spawning when entering
3) Chance of finding a rare and lost item from before the Age of Ice (anything. Possibly even a unit, some knowledge, etc!)

 

[Gelvan]

1) chance of swamp spreading to another tile. Prevent it with Nature or Sun Mana (Scorch or make the nature obey you)

yeah that would enhance the options for Scorch.

Rather annoying. Especially when your carefully cultivated 18th level hero, who has been wading through everything the clan has thrown at you with ease, slips and dies in the mud.

well, no one told you to enter the swamp, did they? (well Merlin might, but he is not in the game, so..) - would be part of the fun.

another idea: make swamps impassable terrain for everyone but few units (Assasin, Lizards (Clan), Mages) or with a special promotion (or just water walking).

 

[srmacpherson]

bogs/moors could have a production benefit - providing peat, which would presumably be the (non magical) fuel of choice of the general Erebus peon.

Thats not a bad idea. But Peat would be a bonus, not every swamp would be a productive swamp. Some swamps just plain suck and are good for nothing except to an entomologist.

 

[srmacpherson]

yeah that would enhance the options for Scorch.


another idea: make swamps impassable terrain for everyone but few units (Assasin, Lizards (Clan), Mages) or with a special promotion (or just water walking).

I don't know about making it impassable, but certainly some units should be able to negate the movement penalty associated with it. And certainly water walking would work for those with it. Gives me more reason to give it to my units, especially in worlds where the oceans are less important.

 

[srmacpherson]

Swamps would be cool because they add so many event options.
3) Chance of finding a rare and lost item from before the Age of Ice (anything. Possibly even a unit, some knowledge, etc!)

Perhaps when worked by a worker unit? Or just when walked through? Not a bad thought though. Imagine what one would find in the Dead Marshes.

 

[Wauthan]

OrbiMod also adds swamps and wetlands. Basicly trollspawning floodplains with strong defensevalue, but variation is a good thing. Personally I would prefer swamps to be really poor terrain, but a source of freshwater and with a chance to have ocean resources like fish, clams and crabs.

Sadly there seems to be no way to remove the resource when you remove the swamp. Fish on grassland is a bit odd. Even for FFH.

 

[Skitters]

OrbiMod also adds swamps and wetlands. Basicly trollspawning floodplains with strong defensevalue, but variation is a good thing. Personally I would prefer swamps to be really poor terrain, but a source of freshwater and with a chance to have ocean resources like fish, clams and crabs.

Sadly there seems to be no way to remove the resource when you remove the swamp. Fish on grassland is a bit odd. Even for FFH.

wasn't there a mod being worked for a nomadic civ that included moving horse and cow pastures?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Removing resources along with improvements isn't hard, but it requires that you use a (python) spell to remove the improvement instead of a build order. It would probably be very difficult to get the AI to understand.