Suggested EXISTING rule edits to improve realism or gameplay.

Originally posted by Kryten

as one fast unit cannot retreat from another fast unit, you end up with NO units able to retreat! :eek:
(I would really like to have light Scythian & Parthian Horse Archers with a speed of 3 being able to retreat from Macedonian or Roman Heavy Cavalry with a speed of 2, or to have light Mongol Horseman able to retreat from heavy Russian or Polish Knights.
But I don't think that I have ever seen it happen....if a unit has a speed of 2, or 3, or 10, it is classed as 'fast', so they cannot withdraw from each other).

Could someone please confirm this, because I would love to be proved wrong. :)

In the way back when before PtW, fast units could retreat from other fast units of a different movement. But, in Firaxis' infinite wisdom, they removed this "feature". :mad: But that was so long ago . . .

It frustrates me greatly.
 
Originally posted by Admiral Kraken


In the way back when before PtW, fast units could retreat from other fast units of a different movement. But, in Firaxis' infinite wisdom, they removed this "feature". :mad: But that was so long ago . . .

It frustrates me greatly.

really? You must be kidding! Got CivVanilla and I really like that feature. WHY did they removed it
 
It would be great if you could just change that rule a little. Any unit can retreat from a slower units, example 2 can retreat from 1 but not 3. I think if it is possible that that would be the best way to handle retreat.

Two thats next to each other looks so odd...:confused:
 
Alot of people have been wondering how we could use monk, priest, shaman etc units in the game. Some have suggested an AoE style monk that converts other units, but I never found that quite representative of their role.

But in Civ3, we actually have a perfect opportunity, and something that the game desperatly needs as well ....

A unit that gives a bonus against culture flip, gives a bonus to troops stationed to deal with resistors, and helps assimilate foreign citizens faster!

Priests (or whatever) would do these things, but they would not have any offensive/defensive capability. They would be a special use unit, sort of like workers or settlers. Or perhaps a defense of 1, since they couldn't be captured.

Any thoughts??
 
frekk, just to put a damp blanket on your idea:
Suggested EXISTING rule edits to improve realism or gameplay.
This thread is about what you can do, not good ideas that would be fun if they where possible. :cool:
All offensive and defensive units are just as good for garrison duty.
 
Some of you will have probably already thought of this, but I'll post it anyway just in case.

Resourceless Units Instead Of Outdated Units
------------------------------------------------
The problem with Civ3 is, everything is ‘all or nothing’. If you have just one oilfield, then you can build as many tanks as you like, while if you have no oilfields, then you can’t build any. And things are worse if you have no horse resources....no cavalry troops of any kind, ever.

I think that this is a bit harsh, and inevitably leads to outdated units being built in the more modern times (which people then whinge about because they don’t like having their modern units being defeated by more primitive ones!).
Wouldn’t it be nice if there was some way of making this ‘gradual’ instead of ‘all or nothing’, so that some tanks/horses CAN be built without any resources, but obviously not as many as when the resources are available.
Well, there may just be a way.... ;)

You could allow the Germans for example to build TWO DIFFERENT Panzer units when they gain “Motorised Transport”, both of which use the same animation. Let’s call them “Panzer ”, with a space after the name (which requires NO resources, but costs say 150 to build), and “Panzer” with no space (which requires oil & rubber, but only costs 100). And “Panzer ” upgrades to “Panzer”.

With this method, if they have both oil & rubber, then things are as they are in a normal game.But if they lack one of these resources, then “Panzer” units cannot be built, so they will have to build the far more expensive “Panzer ” instead....thus having far fewer of them.
This would be much better for game play and more realistic than having the Wehrmacht suddenly reverting to Napoleonic armies in 1944 because they lose the Romanian oilfields! :lol:

It would be a lot of work to double all the units in the game this way....but I’m going to do it because I like the results. :)
 
Yes this is a good idea and one I have used in the past. however I take it one small step further. The units that are available without recourses are also weaker (as well as expensive) which I feel is appropriate due to the lacking resources.

Also I have only a hand full of units that do not require resources:
No resources or resources required
Chariot or Horseman
Heavy Horse or Knight
European Swordsman or Medieval Infantry
Musket or Grenadier
(infantry in my game requires no resources)
Guerilla (stat changes) or Modern Infantry
M113 APC or Mech Infantry
Modern Tank or Modern Armor
Jet (user created animations) or modern jet (Standard Animation)

The only Sea Units changes I have are:
Barbarian gallies (they can bombard and use user created animations)
Tribal Class (recourse free upgrade for the frigate and ironclad available at Replaceable parts) or Cruiser (which requires a resource)

Edit:
My asian civs have a completely diferent set of units from PTW and user created units. I feal it just adds to the flavor of the game, however stats wise they work the same.
 
I like the "Panzer" vs. "Panzer " idea. I wouldn't make the "Panzer " weaker. This way, the Guerrilla is still a viable option.

Also the if the AI does get the required resources (through trading or conquering), they WON"T upgrade. At least, this has been my experience. With the stats the same, the upgrading won't be necessary, and the AI can just now begin to build the cheaper "Panzer". :)
 
I've been trying to think of alternate units for every resource requirement -- I'm going to keep this brief here as this seems to touch on at least two or three other threads I'm actively involved with.

I actually begin by bagging Iron as a requirement until plate armor appears -- alluvial deposits et. al. sufficed for millenia before then. Also I do not use Saltpeter as a resource, as it is commonly extracted from manure piles.

I use bamboo as a resource (obviously on a real world map for East Asia only) as a requirement for bamboo-tube firearms (Hwacha, etc.) as well as Junks.

Post "WW2" aluminum is required for "NATO" style armies; lacking aluminum forces the use of "Soviet" style armies -- far stronger then WW2; weaker than NATO; cheaper to build.

-- Just scattershot ideas for now -- ask Kryten and/or Hunter for updates on the rest ;) .

Best,

Oz
 
First of all, I'm sorry to bump this thread, but I sure as hell ain't gonna stay silent after spending several hours (spread over two days) reading through it (including most of the other threads that were linked to).
I had several ideas, but I only had the common sense to bookmark related posts earlier today, so I don't remember most of them... I'll post a couple that I thought were quite good.
(Please note I have not messed around with the C3C editor very much, so I don't absolutely know what has been added or changed since the PTW editor that I was more familiar with, I can only assume what I got via logical deduction.)

One idea is based on this thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50603
The idea is that other than a few core units, *all* units would stem from several ultra-rare luxury resources. This way, each civ would develop absolutely according to its start position (since every one of these resources would appear only on a few terrain types)... The mod would require some creative use of costom graphics, and alot of imagination, but it could be done, and would be pretty cool. If we also assume that at the start of the game only a few of these resources are usable, and about once or twice an age a couple more would appear, you could have a civ in the ancient age that is centered around, say, spears, and would have an offensive spearman, a javelin-throwing skirmisher, a heavy defensive spearman, and perhaps a spear-tossing siege weapon. (I know, very unoriginal, but you get the idea.) Then, assuming we set reality aside from this mod (not necessary, but possible), later in the ancient age said civ would discover Magic and happen upon a Fire Node, allowing them to possibly make a Flaming Spearman (undeadish burning guy with a pointy stick ^^) and some Fire-Javelin Tossers, and whatever. In the industrial age they could discover something that gives them speedy offensive naval units that also have a small transport capacity, along with a marine-type unit, completely changing their style of play. The mod could either have each resource allow a single set of units, or have several combinations... The options are really infinite. Only problem, is of course, actually making such an insane mod. Any volunteers? =\
=-=-==-==-=-=

Another idea arose after I read the exchange about how cavalry was offensively superior to infantry, but much more expensive, and was used alot less because of this. Such a situation could be emulated by making many, rather basic units, cost no upkeep, while units that saw limited use due to high upkeep costs would still cost upkeep. Upkeep prices for all governments would be dramatically increased, and free unit count would be greatly reduced (a bit less perhapas for feudalism which fits well with getting alot of free knights). Now, you may say that free upkeep for so many units is unrealistic, but I say that if we imagine there are two levels of upkeep, we can say that the lower, basic level, is so low that the government doesn't even have to deal with it and that it can be taken for granted, while the more expensive, powerful units would require the government's management due to the way they drain the economy. This could add another dimension to the game by allowing for cheap, large, slow, not-as-powerful armies to fight against quick, deadly, and expensive armies. (Yet another dimension could be added by making the upkeep units very cheap, shields-wise, but I don't know how the AI would deal with that.)
=-=-==-==-=-=

About the issue of polluted impassable mountains,
I thought that perhaps assuming we go with the setup where all units are wheeled other than Scout, Explorer, and Helicopter (?), you could have a unit that comes in with Ecology, a Decontamination Specialist, that is a worker that can only clear pollution, and has a very high worker strength (around three times that of a normal worker sounds good), and *is not wheeled*. This would make it so to reclaim those polluted mountains (and jungles and whatever other terrain you make impassable) left over from the industrial era, along with those that get polluted recently before and anytime after the advent of Ecology, you would have to create the appropraite unit for such a job. They would not cost pop, so in Modern Times you would be very likely to have most of your workers join cities, and be replaced by Decontam. Specs, since your workers end up doing mainly that during the late stages of the game...
=-=-==-==-=-=

These are the ideas I could currently recall. Thanks for an excellent read, and I have to say, I admire you guys. =D
(And I apologize again for bumping the thread. ><)
 
@Blasphemous -- your idea of ultra-rare luxury resources can also be used in moderation. For example, in the mod I'm perpetually working on, building the Highland Warrior-generating improvement "Raise The Highland Clans!" requires a resource called "Scots" which is invisible (i.e., has no graphic associated with it) and is placed only in Edinburgh (256x256 world map). I use a similar approach for Galloglass Warriors etc.

Personally, I'm not certain that a certain number of common units is undesireable, but the idea is an interesting one.

Here's to a well-bumped thread,

Oz
 
Sorry to bump again, but I had a very interesting idea last night...
The idea is best suited for scenarios and mods that don't need seperate Ages as much as they need extra cultural groups (visually).
Basically, the idea is to have either four identical ages, or two pairs of ages, one pair identical to the other. Some tribes would start off with a useless base tech at the start of a later age or the second pair of ages, and this tech would allow them to research everything else in that age or pair of ages. This tech would require a ERA_NONE tech that only those tribes would have. At the end of each age, or at the end of the first pair, there would be a tech requried to advance to the next age that would require an ERA_NONE tech that nobody at all has, so they can't advance to the next ages. All this would allow to have ten or twenty cultural groups. How? Say we want ten cultures, so we have two pairs of ages. There are five actual culture groups that start off at the beginning of the first age, and there are five sub-cultures that start at the beginning of the third age, which would be designed to look like a seperate culture.
I can think of three issues with this system that might cause some problems:
1. I don't know how the AI would react to having techs (and eras) they could never research.
2. AI attitudes would still go according to the actual culture group the tribe in question is in, and the tribes that start in the third age may be considered more advanced. This would only be good in mods or scenarios where there are superior sub-groups in some cultures (let's say, High Elves as a sub-group for Elves in a fantasy mod)...
3. Scientific tribes would get less techs, due to less era advancements. This could probably be blanced with other bonuses, or perhaps some extra starting techs.
Does anyone know of other issues that could arise in such a system?

EDIT: After linking to this post in another thread it was pointed out that this trick would not allow for normal tech trading... Oops. ><
 
Steph said:
I almost forgot something. The cost. The shield cost should be lower than it is in civ III (4 turns to build a knight? That means 100 years!). My goal is basically to have the units, except settlers, buildable in one turn (for a normally developped city), except for tanks, planes, small ships (they will need 2 turns), and bigger ships (3 turns).
However, every units will cost population:
- For infantry / cavalry : 1 point if the unit has 1 HP, 2 if it has 2 HP, 3 if it has 3 or 4 HP.
- For chariot / armor : usually 2 points
- For planes and ships : 1 point.
The upkeep cost will also be a lot higher.

So this means you will be able to build your army rather fast, but:
- It will take a big toll on your population
- It will be very expensive to maintain.
So, how to solve it?
First, build your army to the limit of free maintenance for protection. When you need to attack, build fast a new army, fight short wars, and when the war is over, go back to the cities, and... join it! Every unit will have the join city command, to represent demobilization.

Has anyone ever designed a mod like this? High maintenance, quick build units (with or without the population costs)? I remember hearing the AI didn't handle population costs on units very well, but how does it handle units that build in one turn, but drain the treasury?
 
alms66 said:
Has anyone ever designed a mod like this?
Steph's mod does this, I think, and he's working on a version two as well. I ain't ne'er played it, tho'.
 
Thank you for bumping this great old thread, that I wasn´t aware of. :)
Some of my ideas for CCM are here posted long before I had them. :eek::

For example the multiple leader concept for a civ exactly works as Kryten described it here. :goodjob:

To give nearly all units the wheeled flag is another concept of CCM that was posted here long ago. But I have to add, that the AI sometimes seems to have big problems with pathfinding for wheeled units in special situations, that lead to freezes for "wheeled" seaunits in combination with unwheeled seaunits loaded landunits that one has a wheeled flag and the other landunit doesn´t have it. For landunits with the wheeled flag in rare situations we noticed two CTDs when these units also had the explore flag.
 
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