Suggested units, buildings, Wonders, civics to be added...

[Dom Pedro II]

I realize that Revolutions has up to this point added game mechanics without adding new content such as new units, buildings, wonders, improvements and civics, but perhaps the new game mechanics warrant some of these things... I'm not saying they do, nor am I offering up any suggestions. I'm merely opening the floor for the discussion.

State your case and try to win over jdog to your point of view!

 

[Fosse]

My position is that no such additions should be made. I think mods are best suited by doing their own thing very well, and are often hurt by watering them down with feature creep and/or idiosyncratic additions (ie, a mod that makes Marathon twice as long would be desired by some, but the person who makes it also tweaks Free Religion to cause double happiness, or Tanks to have 3 moves, or something else that he likes his games to have). I feel especially this way because Revolutions is largely compatible with mods that add units and improvements and civics already, so it would be little trouble for the end user to combine them or another modder to make a "spin-off" version.


But I have a question regarding the buildings in the game:
I've read few posts where people discuss Walls, Castles, Courthouses and Jails as needing to have an effect of reducing the growth of the rev. index in cities. Is this actually done already or just wished for?

If it's just wished-for then I think this isn't an inappropriate thread to re-request that feature, and to discuss which buildings should have such an impact. I believe that Castles, Courthouses and Jails should all have some effect on revolutions, but that Walls should not (or at least only a much more modest effect).

 

[jdog5000]

But I have a question regarding the buildings in the game:
I've read few posts where people discuss Walls, Castles, Courthouses and Jails as needing to have an effect of reducing the growth of the rev. index in cities. Is this actually done already or just wished for?

If it's just wished-for then I think this isn't an inappropriate thread to re-request that feature, and to discuss which buildings should have such an impact. I believe that Castles, Courthouses and Jails should all have some effect on revolutions, but that Walls should not (or at least only a much more modest effect).

Walls and Castles increase the revolution quelling potency of your garrison. Courthouses decrease the negative effects of distance/size of civ.

Currently Jails do not have an extra effect ... but they certainly could. Ideas?
- Decrease chances of revolution being violent
- Per turn decrease in rev index
- Decrease in unhappiness rev index effect
- ?

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Walls and Castles increase the revolution quelling potency of your garrison. Courthouses decrease the negative effects of distance/size of civ.

Currently Jails do not have an extra effect ... but they certainly could. Ideas?
- Decrease chances of revolution being violent
- Per turn decrease in rev index
- Decrease in unhappiness rev index effect
- ?

Hmm... yes, Jails definitely need something... Of these possible suggestions, I would say that maybe decrease in unhappiness rev index effect might be best since those malcontents are being removed from the population... however there is something to be said for decreasing the chance of a violent revolution since those that actually are inclined to violently overthrow the government will probably get themselves into legal trouble prior to the uprising and be thrown in jail more easily... thus they will not be able to participate in any moves against the system (not directly at least).

Either way, a jail to me seems to have the effect of removing the most extreme elements of a reform/separatist movement.

Or you could do like Unterland and impose the death sentences for all infractions of the law

 

[BobTheTerrible]

I'm also against adding any new buildings/civics etc. I think the main goal of the mod is to provide the revolution features, and shouldn't worry about further tweaking the game.

 

[CivFanCCS]

I agree with most of the replies. I also dislike when mods go to far out of their intended goals. I agree with Fosse, you should try to keep it just revolutions mod. However I am proposing to add one new building. Sometime in modern age (or end of industrial age) you should be able to build the "Domestic Intelligence Agency" , like the FBI, or depending on what gov. civic you choose maybe an alternate "Secret Police HQ". This build would give you options every 6 - 10 turns (or new civic cat.) on how to deal with unhappy citizens. i.e. you could choose between "Harsh Punishment" on one extreme and "Liberal Leniency" on the other. With a few more options in-between. These options could affect what revolutions you experience. Harsh punishment would cause citizens to to revolt faster but with less men and fewer cities (citizens in jail, or slain, some citizens fearful of revolting) when they do revolt. (less units , etc) Liberal would cause revolts to happen slower but be more violent (ie. extreme right revolt. (more citizens to revolt, citizens think you are weak, etc.) Citizens could also complain and/or praise what your policy is toward them.

My 2 cents

 

[epharos06]

Maybe allow no revolutions in x turns after completing a wonder. Wonders are supposed to make people amazed by the civilization's greatness, even rebels

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Maybe allow no revolutions in x turns after completing a wonder. Wonders are supposed to make people amazed by the civilization's greatness, even rebels

Wonders already do this... it's not a guaranteed thing, but it reduces the chance of a revolution occuring.

 

[porto_alegre_xP]

Dom Pedro II, brazilian independece's icon...

i want some previews of the game

 

[BobTheTerrible]

Actually, one thing that might be cool would be an "incite revolution" ability for the spy unit... just park him in an enemy city and it adds a bit towards the rev index each turn or something.

 

[jdog5000]

Actually, one thing that might be cool would be an "incite revolution" ability for the spy unit... just park him in an enemy city and it adds a bit towards the rev index each turn or something.

There will be abilities that will do this coming standard in BTS. I'm playing wait and see with what they come up with ... From the BTS info center:

Spy Missions

* Destructive
o blowing up terrain improvements and buildings
o poisoning water supplies
o stealing gold
* Foreign Affairs
o spreading their civilization's culture into their target city
o coercing their target leader to switch civics or state religions
o supporting a revolution
o If the city is in revolt, you'll take out a large chunk of it's culture
o fomenting unhappiness
* Intel
o can provide defense against enemy espionage by performing counterespionage missions

 

[Aeven]

Hmm. I think that the effects of some civics could change that of others. For instance; if you have the Hereditary Rule Civic, and combine that with Emancipation, it equals a parliamentary monarchy.

 

[jdog5000]

Hmm. I think that the effects of some civics could change that of others. For instance; if you have the Hereditary Rule Civic, and combine that with Emancipation, it equals a parliamentary monarchy.

What were you thinking could be different for civs in this state?

 

[korn469]

What I would like to see is a partisan/guerilla/insurgent unit that more approximates real world guerilla warfare than what we've seen in civ so far.

It should be invisible like a submarine, have the hidden nationality tag from BtS (like privateers), lots of first strikes, the guerilla and woodsman promotions, a good chance of retreating, the pick the unit you target mechanic from BtS (like elephant ballistas [that is if i correctly understand the way firaxis has implemented that feature]), but have a far lower strength that conventional military units. These units should be cheap to build, and use food in their prodution. In large numbers they should be able to bring down conventional military units, but for the most part they should be a nuisance by pillaging and carrying out hit and run attacks rather than a threat to conventional military forces. Autospawning these units from cities with a high revolution index would be a cool feature as well.

To counter these units there should be some type of special forces/counter insurgency unit that can see invisible ground units, have much more strength than partisans, may or may not be invisible, do not have hidden nationality, can paradrop, have amphibious and commando promotions, also have first strikes and retreat, but are fairly expensive.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Hmm.. I agree that I would like to see more special units for rebel governments. Guerrilla fighters, RPGs, truck-mounted Katyushas... they'd be dirt cheap but still moderately effective for hitting the enemy and running away. Not especially good for the long haul, but they'd serve well enough until the rebel civ started cranking out their own regular infantry troops or receiving foreign aid.

Giving the guerillas the hidden nationality flag is a non-starter... all it will do is lead to pointless attacks on third parties civs near the border... Giving them the ability to explore rival territory however would be acceptable... so they could attack and then slip across the border into another country.

I would give them 2 MP, but I would also impose these restrictions:

1) The 2 MP would only apply within their own borders or neutral territory. If they invade the parent civ, they only get the standard 1 MP. This is to represent them having a knowledge of their own territory but not being particularly useful crossing into enemy territory.

2) I would give them invisibility, but it would only apply for Forests and Jungles... so if they're standing on those tiles, they can't be seen unless an enemy unit tries to occupy that tile or when the invisible unit attacks or more to another tile.

Currently, neither of these two restrictions are possible, but that will change once they've been added into the SDK by me.

But should these be added to the base Revolution mod?... Probably not. A lot of people seem to like the lack of new units, buildings, etc. This is one of the reasons why I worked with jdog to get a tag added in the XML specifically to determine if a unit could be spawned as a rebel.

The solution then is to mod this mod so that the Guerrilla would be the only unit permited to be spawned after the earlier melee and archery units have expired.

 

[Aeven]

What were you thinking could be different for civs in this state?

This could increase the amount of happiness. Also, parliamentary monarchies have been proven to be a cheaper alternative to universal suffrage (aka presidency) when you take in to consideration that you need not worry about constant changing of Head of State. It could have decreased cost, and more happiness.

 

[Aeven]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=204082

This modcomp could be a nice addition to the civics.

 

[jdog5000]

While mobilization from Civ3 is missed, I don't want to disturb the civics system too much with anything not directly revolution related. And, with the amount of new things in BTS, Firaxis may even have added Mobilization back in ... we'll see.

 

[Aeven]

Well, then I'd like to see my Parliamentary Monarchy idea in it. A cheaper alternative to Representation and Universal Suffrage. Heck, it even has DynamicNames possibilities: The People's Kingdom, the Democratic Kingdom, the Liberal Kingdom etc.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

This could increase the amount of happiness. Also, parliamentary monarchies have been proven to be a cheaper alternative to universal suffrage (aka presidency) when you take in to consideration that you need not worry about constant changing of Head of State. It could have decreased cost, and more happiness.

I'm working on something that you might like then... I've almost finished a modcomp that adds civic modifiers from other civics. So, for example, you could get +100% Culture in All Cities from Hereditary Rule if you have Caste System, for example. I'm going to make it alter the civic anger of a civic (which currently doesn't exist) later.