[suggestion]why not a fixed start?

not to criticize the HOF but i just had a look at winner of first contest and he had a start i couldnt reproduce in 20 starting game not even by 2 res

so whats the real point of hof (apart from the fun) ?

if you want to "fight" to win you just have to start over and over until you have a uber location which is too much boring

then my suggestion here: why not provide the rules AND a starting save so everyone start in the same map with the same conditions?
that way the winner is really the winner and not the one with most patience that can try 442312312 games

my 0.02

 

Because the HoF is not the same as GotM.
HoF stands for Hall of Fame and if that is not self explanatory enough here is more information.
Look here for Civ 4 HoF table. I believe the one for Civ 5 will look similar.

Sofar the games are just testgames.

 

i didnt ask for informations

i asked "why not a fixed a start? "

 

And i just gave you the answer.

 

Because a fixed start would be the same as GOTM which is a different competition.

 

ok but still it seems to me only a thing like gotm makes sense

what is the sense then of HOF if ppl win just by outstarting others?

 

Well go and play these instead then.

 

The civ 3 & 4 HOF had plenty of #1 slots filled by games with average starts, too. The amount of rerolling for good starts is probably amplified for gauntlets compared to regular HOF play. Since the test games are gauntlets, and since they're the introduction to the HOF for lots of new players who have found the HOF with civ V, it's probably giving them a bit of a false picture.

 

well ofc i will go and play what i find more meaningful

the point of this thread was understanding that, what makes more sense and if there is something im missing

 

ok after all those nonsense replies finally something useful

this seems a good idea

 

whats the difference between the 2?

 

The Gauntlets are timed competitions using set guidelines in game construction. The normal HOF games are much looser in terms of what options you choose (Civ, landmass, win condition, etc) with the objective of just getting as high a score as possible.

The HoF competition hasn't opened for Civ5 yet, as there's no anti-cheat mod yet.

 

A "Fixed Start" is by definition exactly what the Game of the Month (GOTM) is. There would be no point in the Hall of Fame (HoF) using a fixed start, because it could be played only once for the one fixed start in that HoF slot. A fixed start per Gauntlet is probably what you are suggesting, but the HoF wouldn't bother doing that, since GOTM has years of experience in that type of competition.

Before labeling previous responses to your query as "nonsense", it may be instructive to read:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=380081

Here is the main HoF page for Civilization IV (the one for Civilization V has not been set up yet):

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/index.php

The Game of the Month is a once a Month event (you may play just one Game once per month). The Hall of Fame is a competitive framework that shows the "best" game in its category for all time (at least as long as the sponsors and volunteers keep it running, which they have for years. Thanks Guys!). You can Play as many new Games in any Category (HoF slot) as you have the time and stamina to muster.

I've read all the responses to your query and they made sense to me, but I've been Playing HoF Games for years, so perhaps I read things into the responses that weren't there.

So, 'Can a "Fixed Start" fit into the Hall of Fame?' Probably not.

Welcome to the HoF!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

why only once btw?
why a competition cant work with the same fixed start but played multiple times?

the point is logic not knowledge

i *DIDNT* know there was gotm and other stuff, i am new to these things
i admit my ignorance on these matters
but still i dont see how the existance of a good thing make a wrong thing senseful

i explain once again:

i see a stupid car called X with 3 wheels and no ceiling
i say "why not make X with 4 wheel and something so it doesnt rain inside? "

and all ppl reply "well there are already thousands of normal cars with those traits"

man it doesnt make sense, cars have 4 wheels FOR A REASON, cause IT IS BETTER

its not like you have to be different at all cost if the "normality" is founded on logic ideas


anyway im not here to flame about it, i was just curious about this contest and i had a few interesting answers and clarifications, also i got to understand there are possible fixes to what i find huge flaws in the actual system

so its all set

 

A start can be played only once, because after the first play of a start, you will have "forbidden" knowledge of where happiness resources are located, where each AI started and especially the location and type (Military, Maritime, Cultural) of every City State. For a non-Pangaea Water Map you will also know the exact location of any Continents and any Islands. After the first play of a fixed start, the unrevealed Tile will have no meaning, because you already know what terrain and resources are there. You could use such "forbidden" knowledge to unfairly improve the results of subsequent plays (restarts) of the same start.

I'm not aware of any formal Civilization competition that allows playing the same fixed start multiple times. Not knowing what is located in unrevealed hexes (covered by clouds in Civilization V) is essential to the exploration part of the Game.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

well no
i opened this thread just cause i couldnt see any objective reason to value them otherwise

yes i understand that

i totally agree
its like in some sport with technology

the top runner with a non optimal pair of shoes can still beat a non top athlete with the best shoes in the world

its correct what you say

the point you dont consider is the CHOICE

if you put the top athlete in a competition and GIVE HIM THE CHOICE to pick whatever shoes he wants why would he run with a sub optimal pair?

why not just pick the best shoes?

 

So how would you implement it? what would happen with someone like me who tends to play lots of games when I'm bothering to play? I just play the same start, the same game 10 games over? Or do I expect the HOF staff to generate a heap of starts, and I just select from what's available?

To use your analogy, the current HOF setup means I can run whenever I want, in whatever pair of shoes I want, over whatever distance I want, and have my time recorded. I don't have to wait for anyone else to setup a race, I don't have to wait for someone else to hand out the same pair of shoes to me & 97 other people, I can just run when I choose to, and it still counts. Even it's just a barefoot jog around the block. Yeah, for some of my games I'll make sure I have the best shoes, the best place to run, etc. But most of the time I can't be bothered getting hold of all that stuff, I'll just choose to run in whatever I happen to be wearing anyway. That's the choice the HOF offers. I don't see any reason to take that choice away, to compel me to use HOF-issue shoes.

It's not practical at all to force identical starts for ordinary HOF play. Yes, it could be done just for the gauntlets. But unless an individual gauntlet is made with a very good start, gauntlet games aren't going to be competitive with the regular HOF games. Gauntlet games are going to be very different to regular HOF games. You can't discuss strategy, you can't refine strategy, because that means people playing when they already know lots of info that isn't normally available until you explore, like where the land is, where the AIs & CS are, where the resources are, where the ruins are, etc, etc. One of the good things about the HOF is the chance to share ideas, to talk about stuff, to see what others are doing and try and replicate or improve it. There are threds of mine in the Civ 3 HOF forum that were still getting used 3 & 4 years after I started them. What you're suggesting would remove the ability & incentive to do a lot of that.

So, your suggestion won't work for general HOF play. It will dramatically change gauntlets, make them unlike every other HOF game. It will actually make gauntlets identical to a restrictive GOTM game (it'd be the same as GOTM, but without the choice of VCs). If I want to play games like that, then I'll just play GOTM.

 

well given the skills (and time) it could work to implement a REAL balanced map where all resources and randomness averages in some way BUT STILL forcing a normal gameplay with exploration and such

ofc the first point is balancing capital, 1 or 2 more resources are too much an advantage, not talking about OP resources like marble etc

ofc like most ppl said you would need to balance city states too trying to give a good distribution in their position, types and bonus given