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Suggestions and Requests

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. LAF1994

    LAF1994 Chieftain

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    A couple of suggestions regarding classical wonder resource requirements:
    -The Great Library and Great Lighthouse should require cotton (so Greece doesn't just build them immediately in Athens)
    -The Great Cothon should require ivory (likewise)
    -The Oracle should require wine (so Babylon doesn't just build it before Greece spawns)
     
  2. ozqar

    ozqar King

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    I think all of these are good ideas, but they should speed production speed, not be absolute requirements, so there's still some variability in wonder ownership.
     
    Mxzs, 1SDAN and bluepotato like this.
  3. Steb

    Steb King

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    I'd prefer if resource requirements or speeding bonuses concerned only resources that were actually used in building the wonder. (Corn being an acceptable exception for precolumbian stuff.)
     
    Publicola likes this.
  4. Mxzs

    Mxzs Prince

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    If LAF1994's suggestion is in regard to the UHVs and not simply about historical replication:

    Great Library and Great Lighthouse: With the right strategy, Egypt can consistently beat Greece to the Great Library. The Great Lighthouse is iffier IMO, and I could see Stone either being a prerequisite or a production-enhancer.

    Oracle: The Oracle is not part of Greece's UHV, so I don't see why they need to be given a leg up on producing it. Besides, the Oracle is an important piece in both the Egyptian and Babylonian UHV games, and nerfing their ability to get it would compromise their UHV games.

    Great Cothon: This one I agree with. Carthage gets screwed in the UHV game very often because Greece goes for the Cothon and has a head start on it.
     
    1SDAN likes this.
  5. KeeperOT7Keys

    KeeperOT7Keys did nothing wrong

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    I wrote this in another thread, but I think something like this mechanic might be a more elegant solution than several resource restrictions.

     
  6. Mxzs

    Mxzs Prince

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    As long as we're tossing out ideas, how about adding a temporary Papyrus resource to Egypt, good for speeding up production of both regular libraries and the Great Library? The resource could be placed where the Cotton currently is, and at some point in the Medieval era the Papyrus could disappear and be replaced by Cotton. This already happens with the Egyptian Copper, which expires and is replaced by Iron.

    Egypt lags in the early tech race, and though Great Prophets and the Oracle can help them research Philosophy quickly, Navigation is longer to get and Greece is very apt to build the Great Lighthouse just as Egypt is discovering it.
     
    Publicola and Cosmos1985 like this.
  7. Zaddy

    Zaddy Warlord

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    Could the negative impact of foreign relations be capped? For me, it's pretty much a given that I'm sitting at something like -15 from that catagory alone, which is often the ONLY thing making me unstable (and often is the sole thing that makes me collapse)

    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-10-30_23-13-3.png


    This diplomatic situation makes me sit at -14 foreign stability. I've reviewed what influences foreign stability in the civilopedia and to be honest I have no earthly clue why I'm so negative (it's about to make me collapse when it's the only category I'm negative in). Isolationism tanks your economy to a hilarious degree and is usually a non-viable civic so that isn't a good option either.

    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-10-30_23-16-32.png
     
    Publicola and Cosmos1985 like this.
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Can you share this save? I'd like to compare.
     
  9. Zaddy

    Zaddy Warlord

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    I don't have that particular moment saved, but I do have another save where I believe I'm in a decent diplomatic situation but I'm sitting at -10 from bad relations. Save attached.
     

    Attached Files:

    Leoreth likes this.
  10. MalayanGamer

    MalayanGamer Chieftain

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    I think you should replace 1700 AD Map with 1600 AD Map. Just say in.
     
  11. Saint Max

    Saint Max Chieftain

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    I think a good add on would be the possibility to pillage a city when you eliminate the last défender without taking it (destabilizing thé owner but not you)
    It would be easier to manage one s stability by not taking a non historical settlement, while earning money and destabilizing the opponent (and you earn nothing of course if you try to pillage it again next turn etc)
    Actually I collapsed as the vikings trying to achieve the last UHV because of that (and the -15 bad relations...)
    Furthemore why can’t you pillage (and take, so) aztecs in médiéval area ?
    Thanks
     
    Crimean Lord likes this.
  12. h0spitall3rz

    h0spitall3rz Grand Vizier of Your Mind

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    I would be happy to see a Colonist unit in the game. It should only be able to defend (maybe a little weaker than the Arquebusier) and can gain XP, and can found cities. Cities on found should spawn a free defender with its XP based on that of the Colonist unit, as well as a free worker. It should cost more than just a Settler, but maybe less than a Settler, Worker, and Arquebusier combined. This would simplify the colonization process a bit in the game. I think Galleons should still be trained separately, though, as including it with the Colonist unit "group" would be basically getting free Galleons.
     
    Cosmos1985 and Publicola like this.
  13. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    So basically the American Pioneer UU with some XP bonuses?
     
  14. TJDowling

    TJDowling Prince

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    Some mechanism by which you could turn captured slaves into soldiers.
     
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  15. h0spitall3rz

    h0spitall3rz Grand Vizier of Your Mind

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    Well, yes. I forgot about that, though I also wasn't sure if the Pioneer also grants a free worker. Maybe that Colonist should require having explored around 10-20 tiles of another continent. American Pioneer would be basically Settler that acts like Colonist, plus some other bonus like extra starting production or an additional worker.

    Alternatively, the Colonist can be represented as a Project that can be built any number of times, which on completion grants Galleon + Settler + Worker + Defender. But it would be a bit more expensive if the Galleon is included.
     
  16. catacau

    catacau Chieftain

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    In the 600 AD scenario AI China start with Militia in their 2 Southeastern coastal cities, that's make super easy to rush them with Ballista Elephants as Khmer. Give them some crossbowman
     
  17. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    I don't really like the Colonist unit idea. It makes settling new areas too straightforward. Just build a colonist and you're done. I think it is more fun if you also need to put focus on building defenders and workers in order to succesfully settle a new area.

    I like the American Pioneer being an exception to this, because that gives America a more unique playing style.
     
    borhap88, h0spitall3rz and 1SDAN like this.
  18. McMickeroo1

    McMickeroo1 Chieftain

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    SOME POINTS ABOUT STABILITY/CIVIL WAR

    So I just played the best game ever as Mexico. I controlled from Vancouver, to Chicago, to Savannah. However... the game just collapsed into civil war, which I found disappointing, so a few points:

    1. If nothing else, make it so that the game doesn't just automatically end when you have bad stability. I don't see how anybody could disagree with this point. If in my war with the US, stability got bad, and the west coast broke away... fine... that's a road bump, but I might actually enjoy trying to reclaim that land. Having cities break free and even entire empires split in half is a good way to moderate the rapid expansion of empires. Having the game just end... automatically... just feels sort of annoying. Every other problem I have could be unaddressed, as long as you make it so when the empire descends into civil war, there is a chance to actually continue the game.

    2. Do this for AI civs too. I bring this up as it's own point because I'm sure at least at one point it was the case that civil war didn't result in auto-death for the player, but it did for the AI. TBH... I don't really like this. Sure, make France lose their colonies. Make Russia split in two. But don't just have it so the whole country just collapses easily.

    3. Just... scale back the whole civil war thing, in general. I play a lot of games in this mod... and in pretty much every game I've played at least one, usually two, of the major European powers is just... absent. In the last game I played it was France, Spain, and Germany, all absent from nigh on the entirety of the game. Thing is... in reality... these European countries were very powerful, and they were present. Yet every game I play Europe seems to be 50% independent city-states where actual empires should be. Empires collapsing into civil war should be incredibly rare... just as it was in real life. You have all these great civilizations you went to the effort of programming. I'd like to play a game once where more than half of them are present.

    4. More civil wars early on, fewer civil wars later on. It seems to me like a huge decider in whether there will be a civil war is the whole core area vs overextension thing. This creates a huge historical issue, best exemplified by China. China never has civil wars during the early game... you know... during the period it was actually having a huge amount of civil wars. And yet by the 1980s when power was pretty consolidated in real life, what was China is now just a big grey blob. I don't think I've ever reached 2000 AD with china still around. Again, in this case I would actually say crank up the civil wars in the early game. China should be experiencing civil wars and rebellions fairly often in the run up to the 17th century. And then just like in real life these civil wars should teeter off. I'm speaking specifically about china, but in general I'm saying that the civil war mechanic should be weighted to ensure civil wars take place in more historically accurate time periods. Right now, because the main determiner seems to be over-extension, there really are very few civil wars early on when there should have been loads.

    4b. Just... no civil wars in modernity at all... really... not in the west. A neat little hack for civ is that if you complete all your historical victories, and then die, the game will automatically keep playing. And you still get the prompts to take over as other civs. So one of my favourite things to do in earlier versions of the game was to do that, then leave my laptop for basically the whole day, to return, take over a civ, and see what the new world was looking like. I've tried that several times with this game, and I can't see what the new world is looking like... because every single civilization has collapsed into civil war. Every last one.

    So yeah... these comments are kind of in order of preference, but I would genuinely like to hear from anybody who thinks that something I've said would not (1) improve the overall gameplay and make things more enjoyable, and (2) better reflect the actual history of the world.

    Thank you. Love the game.
     
  19. Zaddy

    Zaddy Warlord

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    Back again with more foreign relations silliness.

    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-11-9_4-4-1.png


    This diplomatic situation gives me -17 stability from bad relations. It's been negative for more or less the whole game.

    My point by saying this is that when the foreign relations stability mechanic is producing extremely penalizing and unintuitive results for the player, it should probably be reviewed. For all I know the actual penalty might be working perfectly as designed. I think the design has some issues.

    Thanks a ton for all your work by the way, I've dumped probably 2000 hours into the mod over the years. Keep chugging! Cheers
     
    Enyavar, trevor, 1SDAN and 2 others like this.
  20. McMickeroo1

    McMickeroo1 Chieftain

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    I think "unintuitive results" is the best way of summarising the issue with the stability. Collapse always seems to occur when it feels like your civilization is doing its best.
     
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