Sulla's Civilization IV Walkthrough

[Aussie_Lurker]

Not confused, Sullla, just putting forward alternative suggestions for what pyramids could give instead of access to all government civics. OK, two free engineers might be too powerful-how about just the one? My point is that it makes good HISTORICAL sense, because a lot of builders, craftsmen were brought in from across Egypt to build the real pyramids, and this is what a free specialist could represent.

As for representation. I have NO problem with its effects, just its low upkeep. IMO, the three top government civics should be either medium or high (perhaps Hereditary Rule and Rep could be Medium, with Police State and Universal Sufferage could be High!)
As I said, these are opinions based on my 3rd hand observations alone. Perhaps I will feel differently after playing the game!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Khaim]

I havea nitpicky question. It's apparent from your city screens that you're getting a fair number of bonuses that don't really show up. For example, the Mecca size 7 screen under today's update shows you with 12 health, and only five from food resources. One is probably from the river; is the other 6 your difficulty-based freebie? Same question for happiness; I count a mere 2 , but you have 9.

Further, a few city screens show a lot more hammers than are on the map. On the same screen, Mecca has 15 hammers from its tiles, but is putting 33 towards Pyramids. Even assuming you have 2x from stone, that's an extra 3 hammers from somewhere. Likewise, the first Damascus screen on the next page shows 8 hammers when I see 7 on the map. The next shot shows 26 hammers coming from 11 on the map, although you have 2x again from Spiritual. Where's all the extra production coming from?

 

[Higis]

Thank you Sulla for a nice distraction from all the school work I have to do. I await your next update

 

[Arathorn]

Khaim -- I think that's at least partially attributable to the Civics bonus from Organized Religion. +25% hammer production for buildings (including wonders) in cities which have your civ's adopted religion.

Arathorn

 

[KrikkitTwo]

One per religion present. Only the Christian large temple is a Cathedral, though. Islam builds a Mosque, Judaism a Synagogue, etc.

So is there any reason to not want a religion in your city?

and secondly does a religion ever leave a city?

 

[apatheist]

Even a little bit too "political correct" this is a briliant ideea !!!

You say politically correct, I say accurate. It would be a little annoying to see the same improvement over and over; having them have unique names is much better.

- Spiritual civs have a strong chance to found an early religion, and their lack of anarchy lets them have a huge amount of flexibility when it comes to the civics (you can swap them almost non-stop as the situation dictates).

Question: when you switched civics, you did both switches at the same time rather than doing the first one and waiting until you discovered the second. Why was that?

If you capture a holy city you can gain all of its benefits, expect that any shrine in the city will be destroyed (you'll have to use another Great Prophet to rebuild it).

Ha. Excellent.

All cultural buildings are lost upon capturing a city (aside from world wonders, of course) as in Civ3.

Ouch. How much does that hurt conquest?

There is only one holy city for each religion - a new one is not created if the original one is destroyed (therefore, protect the holy city!)

Excellent.

That's a very good write-up, Sullla. The only disappointing thing is that you didn't change your in-game name to be Sullladin.

 

[MBison]

Thanks for your response Sulla

Here are a few pretty newb questions. I'm new to Civ so bear with me

I wanted to try an early military Aztec Jag strategy but it didn't pan out too well. This question is to anyone, if an opponent civ has like 4 defensive units in a town, is it worth even attacking? Seemed pretty impenetrable. It was 2 warriors and 2 archers. I got owned. What are some keys to city attack?

Another question to anyone..

What are the various ways to increase food, production, commerce? I'm sure there are many but can you list some that you can think of off the top of your head (including structures, wonders, techs etc)

How about increase happiness (ie: counter unhappiness)

How about increase health?

Thanks very much for your help.

 

[Sirian]

You can blame (or credit) me directly for the Pyramids. I'm one of those who nudged things toward some throwbacks to Civ1, and giving the Pyramids back (something akin to) their original effect was one of my suggestions that Soren decided to use.

I have no regrets! I'm pleased with the effect it has in actual games.


The effects of wonders can be modded to something else for those who want that. Takes a little elbow grease, though...


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

So is there any reason to not want a religion in your city?

and secondly does a religion ever leave a city?

Yes
No

Hope that helps.

 

[kolpo]

Your walkthrough is extremely usefull and informative, I shall keep reading it after I get the game because it contains many ideas for good strategies.

The pyramids seems me also good for an early military rush. +25% unit production is a lot and could easily decide wars. If you combine that with the aggresive trait and civics who give +experience could you do a devastating military rush, against enemies who have to pay more for their units then you(they can't acces police state yet). Napoleon could be a good leader for this strategy, Aggressive + Industrious seems me the perfect traits for this strategy.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Yes
No

Hope that helps.

well... Yes and No (I'm glad of the first...although not knowing what it is just causes more curiousity... The second, I'm kind of disappointed in, especially with regard to the first, because if it would be good for religion to leave a city, then I'd want to be able to do it. (although maybe the 'unspoken penalty' can be reduced by various methods... so that even though you can't eliminate Christianity from your cities, you can minimize the bad effect from Christians...which would be sensible, the religions can go underground but never be eliminated.)

Thoughts of possible penalties...increased sympathy with another power (war weariness when attacking them, increased flip/rebellion probablility, increased gold/LOS to someone else's Holy City.) If religious buildings made these problems worse, that would make them more balanced... is one more +1 happy/+10% res/+50% cult for that minority religion worth the increased flip chance+war Weariness?

 

[Tarkhan]

Paragraph 55-A

Yes.

Paragraph 55-B

No.


Now my bases are covered, all questions can be referred back to these two paragraphs. Ahh mighty Thief, you are a contractual genius!

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Yes Sirrian, I WILL 'Blame' you ! Seriously though, of all the Wonder effects I have seen, this is the ONLY one which seems 'overpowered'-all the others seem just right. I actually like how they have changed The Great Library-so that it isn't quite the 'game-breaker/maker' it used to be. I confess that it is this that formed the basis for how I believe the Pyramids SHOULD work (and, guaranteed, I WILL be modding it !)

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Lord Chambers]

Bump back to the front page!

 

[Sirian]

Yes Sirrian, I WILL 'Blame' you ! Seriously though, of all the Wonder effects I have seen, this is the ONLY one which seems 'overpowered'-all the others seem just right.

What's overpowered about it?

* Universal Suffrage "Town" effects are completely useless early on. The gold rushing can help, but you can't spend gold you don't have!
* Representation Happiness is redundant with Hereditary Rule (HR can actually be better), so it's only the research -- and if you have less than a few specialists, you lose more in Civics Upkeep than you make in science!
* Police State can help you with warmongering, but Vassalage or Theocracy helps more!

By contrast, Aussie, everything you've proposed -WOULD- break the game balance as it exists now. Even one extra "free" Engineer would double the rate at which Great Engineers can be spawned in the early game -- and those can build an ENTIRE wonder in one turn.

Go ahead and mod it! Have fun. Try whatever appeals to you. I can appreciate the notion that you want to change some things. That's why the game is moddable -- you can have the game you want, or get closer to it.


- Sirian

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Ouch, Sirian, no need to get angry with me ! Well, I assume you are getting angry with me, 'cause you sound it. Like I said in my earlier post-I ADMIT that my views are based on 3rd-hand experience at best, perhaps I will change my mind when I play the game. I am curious though, if a free engineer from pyramids is sooo powerful, then how come Great Library grants-is it 1 or 2?-free scientists? Wouldn't this make Great Library too overpowered. Like I said, it was the GL effect which influenced my thoughts on what a good effect for pyramids-in both gameplay and realism terms-would be.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Tarkhan]

This should be stickied

Sullla, this really is well written, I am even going to tear myself away from the game (when I get it...canada) to read the next chapters!

 

[kryszcztov]

@ Aussie : Though I find many of your posts interesting to read, the fact that you make all kinds of assumptions on a yet-to-be-released game (at the time), and this on a large scale, can get annoying. I myself like to throw my little comments on something when I feel like it. But you often judge things before actually experimenting with it, and before it is set in stone, and it's generally an assumption about one feature, without considering the big picture altogether, which can be VERY MISLEADING when you get a brand new game written from scratch and totally reworked like this is the case now. To give you an example, I consider it OK to rant on those silly wild animals as barbs (one could just say "let's replace them with more primitive human barbs"), whereas what's the point in claiming that roads are broken because they don't yield gold anymore, without knowing how gold works in Civ4 ? Just an example, as it's the kind of things you keep repeating over and over. Save your time, fellah !!

 

[admiral-bell]

when will ths be finished?

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

OK, the truth is that I merely OBSERVE-I never STATE-there is a WORLD of difference. Mainly, I always attach the caveat of 'it looks like' or 'it seems' or 'perhaps I am wrong but....'. I have, EVER said 'oh this feature will definitely be PERFECT' or 'oh, this feature is definitely CRAP' or 'this feature IS 100% OVERPOWERED'. Which is why I so often get so annoyed at people who DO make statements of that kind. If you are going to accuse me of something, then at least ensure that it is based on FACT!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.