Sulla's Civilization IV Walkthrough

Aussie_Lurker said:
@kryszcztov. Read the entirety of the post, and you will see it is couched in provisos and caveats-never statements of genuine FACT or belief! IMO means 'in my opinion'. This is very important, especially when I stress that this OPINION is based on not having played the game, meaning that though I feel this way now-on the outside looking in as it were-I might very well change my mind when I am inside the game. Its certainly not like a certain person who loudly proclaimed the game was crap regardless of proof to the contrary from people who had played it-you will NEVER hear me speak in that way, and I do wish you would stop insinuating that I do!
Man, I never hinted that you thought the game or whatever feature was crap !! :eek: I just pointed out that you always make assumptions ("IMO it should be this way"...) about things you don't know (enough). While it is perfectly fine to add "IMO", it doesn't negate the fact that you have a view about features while not having a clue how it influences the rest of the game (and you acknowledge it !). It is just that it can be a little irritating at times, all the more as most of your posts about this could be forgotten once the big picture is in place in front of you. But if this is what you like to do...

BTW, I also dislike the fact that the Pyramids give you access to all the government civics. I'm just not saying it is overpowerful and should be change to this or that... I just don't like the concept of getting things ahead of their corresponding techs, but it's just a "liking" feeling. I won't go as far as having an opinion of what to replace it with until I have experimented with it. :)
 
thanks for answering my questions, really nice of you :goodjob:

also, I like the sound of the answers, especially the culture flips, I hated that feature.
 
See my answer to Sirian, and you will see that I am just a guy who enjoys speculating about this and that element of the game-what SOUNDS overpowered/underpowered to me, what I might consider doing to change it, but always under the strong proviso that I am NOT going to touch the game until I have played it through plenty of times to get a feel for it. Also, I try to avoid couching my opinions in such as way as to suggest that Firaxis 'got it wrong' because, quite frankly, I know they and the beta-testers have worked very hard to get the balance right, but still I LOVE to speculate ;)! To be fair, I did much the same thing with Civ3 and-guess what-I play on vanilla settings almost without exception.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
 
I'm sure no one will see this at the end of a huge list. But of all the tips, tricks and previews I've read, this tops them all. It's so useful to see how it all works together. :king:
 
By way of a 'bump', I thought that I would add my thanks to Sulla for this excellent series. In fact, it was due to reading this walkthrough that I decided to go ahead and order Civ4 from Amazon. (I think you are doing the Firaxis PR job on this forum :) )

I guess one issue I have is that you seem to be strolling through the game far too easily! I appreciate that you have been playing for months, but you certainly make 'Noble' difficulty seem too easy for a first game; yet I would lose more often than win on Regent in civ3. (I refuse to use 'cheesy tactics' such as 0% research, S.O.D., leaving certain cities empty, planting+chopping forests etc)

Looking forward to the next installment, (dont get caught in any late running MP games;) )
 
Culture bombs....I get a mental picture of Itchy painting a picture of a bomb and mailing it to Scratchy, at which point it explodes...

Actually, I'm in my first game now, and are playing on Settler difficulty. Though I think i'm finding it a tad easy, since I've managed to found four religions so far (Actually, I haven't tried, its just happened that way..I only went for Buddhism in the beginning)
 
Yup, I said I wouldn't keep reading the walkthru once I got the game but I have kept up with it just to continue following the adventures of Sulla since it's a good read.

In my current game I'm attacking Germany and I took FOUR great artists with me (my capital is a wonder laiden GP producing machine - I've had 12+ GP so far). So anyways... Germany has/had 3 huge cities and I took out the middle one since it was the closest, dropped a "culture bomb" and it didn't move the borders at all - my new city is completely enveloped by German taint. It eliminated the resistance but now the city is starvin. I took out one of the nearby cities and "bombed" it too so things are looking up, but I gotta take out his last big city to finally get a firm grip. I was mildly shocked when my "culture bomb" didn't budge the border at all!
 
ChrisMDP said:
I have a question: in many of the screenshots I see "100% Arabian" or similar text in the mouseover info box. Is that the strength of your culture in that particular tile?

Yes it is.
 
Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions, Sulla. It is really nice and helpful to get information and insight from someone who obviously already understands the game very well.:goodjob:

About the city flipping: I think I will turn it off completely or turn it on in wars, because I find it strange to have different culture flipping rules between a captured city and a home city. That just doesn't feel right for me, it feels a bit gamey (and it is important how a game 'feels'). It is good to know that strong culture pressure still is a problem for a city even when culture flipping is turned off. So in a game with no culture flipping, culture will still be very important (also for the defence bonus of cities). And if culture flipping were enabled in war, than with the new culture flipping rules, you'll still have some time before it flips. Also the worst problem, losing the units, is gone. I'll play a game with the standard rules first of course.:)

It is also nice to know that there is a pregame option to turn off city razing. I like the many options to fine tune the game before you start. The customer is truly king in this game.:D


One additional question, it is probably a difficult one.
According to what I read in previews (and some forum discussions about these previews), you can't infinitely expand in the beginning of the game because of the city upkeep, but it is possible to maintain a large world spanning empire in the end of the game. This probably has to do with the buildup of infrastructure (terrain improvements, health/happiness improvements and resources, courthouses, marketplaces/banks, etc.) and the development of the right civics and maybe some other things that get enabled by certain technologies. Also the resistance of the more efficient smaller nations is probably not easy to overcome (at a difficulty level that is challenging for the player, clearly noble is not challenging for you :) ).

Now imagine that you play a game with totally no enemy opposition, no other civilisations, no barbarians, no wild animals, no opposition to stop your expansion, except for the city maintenance (yes I know, boring...., but it is just a theoretical game ;) ).
At what point in the game would it be feasible to maintain a world spanning empire for you? I don't mean the moment that it becomes profitable to do so, but the first moment that you could build such an empire that doesn't go bankrupt while running 100% tax. With point in the game I don't mean a year, but more a general indication like late renaissance or early modern age.
The second question is: at what point in time will it be economically beneficial, meaning that every city produces more in science+commerce+culture than it costs in maintenance.

I know that removing opposition removes the usual opportunity costs of expanding your empire and thus moves the date that such an empire would be possible far ahead of anything possible in a typical game. But I ask this question just to gain some insight in the underlying city maintenance rules. In a normal game, the costs of expansion compared to the relative low value of the added cities will cause you to try to improve your empire in different more lucrative ways.
 
kryszcztov said:
BTW, I also dislike the fact that the Pyramids give you access to all the government civics.

The thing I dislike most about it is that I plan to add more Civics down the road (as part of my future era mod), some of which I definitely don't want available in the ancient times. So, I now have to steer clear of the Government category altogether, and put them in the other four categories. But as the game stands, I think it's a nicely-balanced effect.

Sullla, great walkthrough. I don't have Civ4 yet (amazingly, I'm going to try waiting for Christmas, to keep the family happy), but your walkthrough is far more instructive and better laid out than any of the previews I've ever seen. Heck, if someone like Gamespot just linked to your page as an example of how the game plays, it'd be an improvement on their usual reviews. (Plus, Firaxis would probably sell more copies!)
In fact, it's such a good read that I started going back through your Civ3 game reports... then the Final Fantasy ones... then the Diablo 2 one... then back to the Civ3 ones again... man, I'm not sure I can make it to Christmas.
 
A bit of a quiet day today for the Walkthrough, after falling off the front page for most of the time. Of course, that's what happens for non-stickied threads...

I'll answer questions again tomorrow morning, I'm a little too tired to do it now. Part Five has been posted! Happy reading. :)
 
Sullla said:
A bit of a quiet day today for the Walkthrough, after falling off the front page for most of the time.

we did warn you that many of us would lose interest if not posted at once or at smaller intervals due to starting our own games and getting lost in our own world. it is a very nice walkthrough and thanks for your effort.
 
love ur walkthrough, kudos! reading ur part five as i read it. so informative! thankyou so much! makes me understand the game much more!:goodjob:
 
Sullla said:
A bit of a quiet day today for the Walkthrough, after falling off the front page for most of the time. Of course, that's what happens for non-stickied threads...

I'll answer questions again tomorrow morning, I'm a little too tired to do it now. Part Five has been posted! Happy reading. :)
I haven't had any questions because you lay things out so clearly. This is a great read.

One little quirk I did find funny though was how when you chatted up FDR for the first time you had a +1 to relations because of years of peace between your two peoples. Yeah, that will happen when you have never even heard about them until just then. :mischief:

Thanks again!
 
Question for Sullla:

What exactly are the effects of the Forbidden Palace? And how does distance maintenance work? I've still got to wait about two weeks...
 
ThERat said:
Sirian, i was talking about the fact that Sullla could see all units in the English towns that he attacked, thats quite a change from Civ3.

It is? Maybe my memory is going bad! So many details, some are bound to get lost in the shuffle! :lol:

However, I must tell you that the defenders already have PLENTY of advantage without being able to hide their unit mix while the attackers have to reveal theirs. For MP purposes alone, fairness on this score is now essential.

I'd like to answer more questions -- and I will -- but maybe not every question asked. I only have so much energy for chatting, before I need to stop and go play some Civ4 to recharge. I hope that folks can understand. :)


- Sirian
 
Aussie_Lurker said:
As to why I don't like the whole 'access all civics' thing-I don't know-perhaps its because I didn't like it in Civ1.

Ah. Well, I actually found it more beneficial to skip the Pyramids in Civ1, but instead build Colossus and Copernicus in the capital, beeline to Democracy (preferably before 1AD when the tech costs went up -- hey don't get me started on THAT, OK? :lol: ), and exploit the WLTPD population growth to quintuply my empire's population overnight -- and to be running with no corruption from that point onward. The Pyramids actually SLOWED ME DOWN there so I would skip them, once I had figured it out.

As for the "free" Citizens, they would be free from then on (if Pyramids were changed as you describe) but they would not be free overall, since you have to spend a lot of shields building the pyramids to get the "free" shields. See? If it is -just- about shields, that may not be enough. With the Engineers you first described though, building the Pyramids would then translate in to one or two addition, FREE GREAT WONDERS, which is something we had to avoid in the core game.

Whenever anything was so overwhelmingly beneficial as to be the only attractive option, we would either beef up other options or tone down the runaway item -- sometimes both.

Somewhere in there, there are alternative effects that would be balanced. You may have to iterate a few times to find them, though!


Civ4 modders are either going to need a very sharp eye to get things right on one or two tries, or they will need a lot of testing and design help -- such as working in sizable teams on one mod. We had a hundred or so of the best Civ players all working on just one rule set -- the core game -- and we still could not make everything perfect! I'm confident that some really great mods (small and simple, as well as large and dramatic) will be made. :) It's going to take lots of work to get there, though. :cool:


- Sirian
 
Hiya Sullla! Hope you are enjoying your rest ;)! I have just looked over the Financial advisor-and two key questions come to mind:

1) With Civics maintainance costs, is the final cost in any way connected to the number of cities in your nation?

2) Unit maintainance cost looks awful low (1+1 for supply=2!!!) Why is this the case, how much does EACH UNIT cost to maintain-and is this cost effected only by if your units are inside/outside your territory?

3) Sort of a linked question. Can Great Merchants travel across oceans and, if so, can they be killed if their transports are attacked? Connected to this is the more general question of can Great People be in anyway harmed/captured and, if so, does this impact much on relations?

Look forward to the answers :)!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
 
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