Super Maps

[c3p_main]

As i see, alot of sugestions were put in, even the smallest detailed ones, but maybe no one noticed but civ 2 was so far the most accurate of all civs (including 4) they ran the idea away from its original intent. It was supposed to be about creating civilizations from scratch with realistic obsticals and little characatures representing those tiny insignificant men, who together makes a nation. but now they have like units that are 6 times the size of the city and dam enemies that almost never use logic. My point is, when playing everything seems to close to each other, always. So i propose that we instead of making super graphics, make huge maps, 1/4-1/100 scale of earth itself! it won't eat as much memory as you think as long as the system is effecient unlike the current one. Just imagine the time it would take to finish one game!

 

[Colonel]

A. This has already been decided this is a for sure no.
B. This would eat up as much memory as most people would think.even useing basic Civ2 graphics it would still eat up so much in graphics by what would be in Civ3 Middle Ages due to the number of cities and units. I dont care what graphics and game engine you use. Unless your runnin it off a US Govt. Defense Super Computer it is going to be slower then a guy pushin a rock up a hill.

 

[c3p_main]

You're not a programmer are you? Its the tile system which reduces time in graphic computation. Its an array which contains the info in map cells, I was thinking a simpler system could have less information in the array therefore making it feasable

(to give an example of the size im talking about would be like each tile would be 1sq km)

 

[Colonel]

It would still take a ton of memory... and yes I may not be a programmer but I do know that no matter what it would eat up a ton memory-and it is the units and cities are what take up the memory. I do know that.

 

[Gangor]

I think it is you who is not the programmer. Yes, the map is an array (of some sort), but you are forgetting the complicated algorithms which must be performed on that array. The time it takes for the AI to decide which way to move its warrior increases exponentially with map size, for example.

Actually, I think many people here don't stop to think about this sort of thing before they make suggestions. For shame.

 

[Nobody]

For shame.

lol FOr shame on you for shame on YOU!!!!

 

[c3p_main]

hey thats why i said that a new system is in order, sheesh. it should be based on reference to its square and its surroundings, like real troops. The AI operations should be based on reference to the front. They way you say it would be like civ 2 where they know all your positions. It is you "Gangor", who think highly of yourself, and instead of asking how the programming would work, go and insult the people and ideas........ READ MY SIGNATURE!

 

[Tomoyo]

Well, let's hear your terrific new system, then.

 

[c3p_main]

Thats up to the dam programmers of civilization to do, and i havn't seen the source code so i cant really incriminate them, but in any case they couldn't solve something so simple. My sugestion, like i said would be to use the square the unit is on for refernce, and for AI they should use the front for a reference point, not takeing the entire map into consideration, like i presume they do (easier to program), to program the ai to use a hypothetical map in which only the area where action occurs (in war) or edges of country (in peace) will be considered. That also is a simple solution, but yet simple it is, effective also

 

[Tomoyo]

Do you really think it's that easy? That will result in lots of complaints over how the AI never moves it's troops from one area of fighting.

Besides, most of the computing time is taken up by trade route calculations. If you wanted to speed it up, you need to revamp that.

 

[Gangor]

hey thats why i said that a new system is in order, sheesh. it should be based on reference to its square and its surroundings, like real troops. The AI operations should be based on reference to the front. They way you say it would be like civ 2 where they know all your positions. It is you "Gangor", who think highly of yourself, and instead of asking how the programming would work, go and insult the people and ideas........ READ MY SIGNATURE!

If you don't want to be insulted, try not insulting other people yourself. I was merely paraphrasing you. If you're interested about how the programming works may I suggest this article? There are more technical discussions, of course, but this should whet your appetite. Finally, I have no high opinion of myself; wouldn't I be applying for a job with Firaxis if I did?

 

[warpstorm]

A big part of the time is computation of shortest path between points (along with the basic connectivity used for trade routes). This is not a trivial problem as it can potentially (but is extremely unlikely to) involve every tile in the entire game (zero cost tiles are a major culprit here). There are short cuts to be sure, but it is in general a problem that doesn't scale well to large grid sizes.

Now if you are willing to have units not try to find the best paths (like Civ2 did), then you can speed this up a bit.

Incidentally, Civ3 does and Civ4 will use tile arrays.

 

[Illuminatiscott]

Despite the farfechedness oh his idea, it is an amazing idea, one that woud be a perfect strategy game. However, computers are not ready to handle a task such as that. It is an enormous goal, but it may someday be achieved. I am in no way being funny when i say that it may happen in Civilization VI or VII

 

[c3p_main]

Another idea occurs, jagged array maps, maps within maps put together to have huge maps. Only 1 map within the array will be considered at a time. About the troop movements, they have seemed to forget the miricale of fuzzy logic, generalize the areas for computation. Trade roots, two points, create points inbetween on edge of obstical if objects in way. Also, sorry gangor, im very agressive, especially when you say i dont think about what im saying, when your not thinking throughly your responce either

 

[warpstorm]

Another idea occurs, since the AI SDK will be open, c3p_main can implement this system himself.

 

[Superkrest]

has anyone thought of the complaints of how long it takes to move an army in a hugeciv3 map...imagine if it was even bigger..with no movement rate change....damn the computer speed...the people arriving on your battle ship would be 3rd generation sailors...and if they increased the movement rate...can you imagine the boredom of watching your fleet move 25 tiles each?

 

[c3p_main]

True, the entire system needs to be renewed, but it would just create a completely new game

 

[Superkrest]

ive always liked the idea of states or provinces over cities..and focusing on your countries map untill you needed to expand your view..ie early exploration,war etc.. but your right...thats not civ..thats a whole nother game

 

[c3p_main]

I think i can conclude this saying that it just wouldn't be civ if the map was huge