Suppressing city revolt

[shulgi]

So city revolts in captured cities are quite a pain. I captured a nice capitol and capitulated that leader. I don't actually share any borders with this city and am not sure whether I am going to keep it.

What are the best units to prevent uprisings and to not be defeated by uprisings when they occur? Is base strength like knights more important than city garrison longbows? Are more units more important than the overall strength of the units? This city has the potential to grow rather large and it could be quite an investment in units. If I don't share much in the way of borders with this city, will the percent population of my nationality grow, if so, how slowly?

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I believe only the number of units counts. Doesn't matter whether they are warriors or mech inf. You may need 10 garrison units to start with.

As the % of culture evolves in your favour (might be hard if the city is surrounded by AI cities), then the chances of revolt drop, and so do the number of units you need to keep the city in order.
If you're surrounded, you'll need a very high culture output to start gaining in cultural presence. It's important to get at least to 500 culture asap to generate decent culture. Especially for a capital that has built wonders. Best would be to culture bomb the city/settle a great artist (quite an investment).


Screenshot of the city?

 

[shulgi]

Thanks, here's a screenshot of the city, this is from IU 86

Spoiler :

Looking at Carthage, top middle. The city has Schwedagon Paya and Chicken Pizza for some pretty good culture, there is no shrine in the holy city I captured SE of Carthage. I will be giving back Sicca top left, part of capitulation deal, may give back another one too, a bit undecided. If difficulty is part of the equation, this is on emperor.

Spoiler :

 

[Doshin]

I think the type of unit does matter. Quote:

The only catch is that cultural garrison strength can't be found in game, so here is a list of unit values:
warrior, quecha: 3
archer, skirmisher, axe, spear, phalanx, chariot, immortal, catapult: 4
swordsman, jaguar, praetorian, horsearcher, keshik, war elephant: 5
mace, samurai, pike, longbow, crossbow, chokonu, knight, camelarcher, conquistador: 6
musketman, musketeer, grenadier, cannon: 7
rifle, redcoat, calvalry, cossack: 8
machine gun: 9
infantry, SAM infantry, gunship, artillery: 10
marine, SEAL, tank, panzer: 12
mech infantry, modern armor: 16

Source: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5522497&postcount=1

I'm not sure how accurate this info is, but I can buy into the underlying principal.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Thanks, Doshin, nice link I stand corrected. Said I believed the unit type didn't matter, didn't I?


@Shulgi:
Wonders in Carthage aren't that useful.
You seem very close to a win: past the point where the city could make a difference.
I'd give it back. Hannibal will have more use of it. Most important, he'll have instant use of the city, whereas you need to wait for it to come out of revolt.

However, if you insisted on keeping Carthage, you might starve it under Caste System to get an additional Great Person.
Maybe trigger a Golden Age on the turn it gets out of revolt. Get the GP. Gift the city back.

But, really, your game is won already, seems like unnecessary trouble to manage the city.

 

[Manco Capac]

I think the type of unit does matter. Quote:



Source: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5522497&postcount=1

I'm not sure how accurate this info is, but I can buy into the underlying principal.

I assert this list is mostly correct.
And this information can be found in CIV4UnitInfos.xml.

An example:

Spoiler :

<UnitInfo>
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			<Type>UNIT_ZULU_IMPI</Type>
			<UniqueNames/>
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			<Combat>UNITCOMBAT_MELEE</Combat>
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			<DefaultUnitAI>UNITAI_COUNTER</DefaultUnitAI>
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			<SeeInvisible>NONE</SeeInvisible>
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			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_UNIT_ZULU_IMPI_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
			<Strategy>TXT_KEY_UNIT_ZULU_IMPI_STRATEGY</Strategy>
			<Advisor>ADVISOR_MILITARY</Advisor>
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			<bMilitarySupport>1</bMilitarySupport>
			<bMilitaryProduction>1</bMilitaryProduction>
			<bPillage>1</bPillage>
			<bSpy>0</bSpy>
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			<PrereqReligion>NONE</PrereqReligion>
			<PrereqCorporation>NONE</PrereqCorporation>
			<PrereqBuilding>NONE</PrereqBuilding>
			<PrereqTech>TECH_HUNTING</PrereqTech>
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				<BonusType>BONUS_COPPER</BonusType>
				<BonusType>BONUS_IRON</BonusType>
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			</PrereqBonuses>
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			<iXPValueAttack>4</iXPValueAttack>
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		</UnitInfo>

And the object in question is <iCultureGarrison>.

 

[blunderwonder]

its annoying part of civ4, the only thing that makes it tolerable is that many times the cities you take will try to flip back to the person you took it from, and it wont happen. The only time you have to actually worry about it is if you captured the city from someone, and someoen elses borders push on it, because after 2 revolts it can flip to them

 

[shulgi]

Thanks for these answers, you guys. I don't think blunderwonder is quite right, revolts can happen if your nationality is very low, - I'll be at 0% or so if I keep Carthage and the city can flip after the first revolt. If I have understood the article Doshin linked to, it'll take about as many as 12 longbows to keep the city out of revolt (until nationality grows some). The code mechanics is also much very appreciated.

 

[Smilingrogue]

Pretty sure war conquests don't flip back to old owners no matter how many times they revolt, unless "Cities flip back peacefully" or an option to that effect, is checked at the start of the game. Cities can flip to a third party if he is pushing culture into the captured city.

 

[NetGear]

chance to revolt shows on the nationality bar if you hover over it. I noticed garrisoning an outdated unit suppresses less % than the more updated unit, so I also think that unit mattering is true.

It's possible to keep a city (or maybe two) if you are totally done with war and you're not running HR. Then you can park all your stacks there which should lower the revolt chance considerably for you to culturewhore there. It's not all that useful use of your stack though and only advisable if you are TOTALLY done with warring for the time being. I'd keep it if it;s < 3%ish but hey, it is civ... RNG gods do not love you.

However, if you insisted on keeping Carthage, you might starve it under Caste System to get an additional Great Person.
Maybe trigger a Golden Age on the turn it gets out of revolt. Get the GP. Gift the city back.

I typically starve/whip the city as well, mainly to eek out some temporary benefits when im keeping cities. but i also do it on the belief that this helps push the nationality % faster. I wonder if this is true?

and yes in this case, carthage isnt really worth keeping imo.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I typically starve/whip the city as well, mainly to eek out some temporary benefits when im keeping cities. but i also do it on the belief that this helps push the nationality % faster. I wonder if this is true?

Only if your specialists produce culture (Artists, Sistine).
A city's nationality usually only evolves with the city's culture output (different from tile culture, that can be affected by other, adjacent, cities).
Other option requires a Great Artist to produce a Great Work.
In any case, one must control the city to influence its nationality.