"Surely, you must be joking" for Capitulation?

[TheMeInTeam]

This usually isn't and probably wasn't the problem. You only need to kill 8 units and capture 1 city (or just kill 10 units, or fire 4 nukes )

I only captured 1 city, and it was garrisoned with <8 units, so I'd not rule it out .

This was most likely the problem, as capitulation to a team that has not done the most damage is discouraged. The difference between your vassal's WS and your own WS is counted towards your target's WS. --> You could have avoided this great WS of your vassal by telling him to attack other cities once a city is "ripe for capture".

Makes sense, now that I found yet another new annoying wrinkle. Even so, it was refreshing to have vassals actually DO SOMETHING for once, other than eat up space and work the hidden mechanics. I captured 1 city, another vassal got 1, but the 3rd vassal got 2 cities, so this could be the problem also.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that I failed both checks in this case.

 

[Tecibbar]

A question, how does AI get the "lose war -1" diplomacy modifier?

 

[CossackProblem]

It's not exactly unrealistic.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/melian.htm

 

[obsolete]

The pattern suggest it happens when you are so powerful compared to them they know they will never get free, usually you can solve it by just taking a few more of their cities.

Ohh yeah, that really makes a lot of God damn sense. So they get more powerful the smaller their empire gets I assume... This is reminding me of all the kooks who subscribe to homeopathic remedies over traditional medicine.

 

[V3N0M]

Well De Gaulle didn't capitulate to Hitler either

 

[mirthadir]

Well De Gaulle didn't capitulate to Hitler either

Yeah because De Gaulle didn't run France at the time. Petain rolled under; most of the Empire did squat for the rest of the war as well.

 

[vicawoo]

Which brings us to, if De Gaulle and Stalin and Roosevelt and Churchill are in Civ 4, why not Hitler and Poland?

 

[CornPlanter]

Which brings us to, if De Gaulle and Stalin and Roosevelt and Churchill are in Civ 4, why not Hitler and Poland?

As for Hitler, he is kinda demonized now. Like, Satan, or something. Due to hysterical PR. Game with Hitler inside would have no future

Poland / Rzeczpospolita probably seemed to insignificant to devs.

 

[KingMorgan]

Hilter is not in the game because it would illegal to sell the game in Germany if he was.

I had Hannibal tell me "Your too poweful for us", i took another city and he soon changed his tune. Vassall mechs are stupid, but i guess it has to be tight to stop a total walkover of the AI.

 

[obsolete]

Well De Gaulle didn't capitulate to Hitler either

I fail to understand the meaning in this. France took the worlds largest military super-power and managed (IN RECCORD TIME) to run it into an embarrasing defeat so bad it is comparable to the Spanish defeat of their Armada.

I can not recall any intelligent exploits of DeGaulle, and the only thing that comes to mind is when he visited my country over a generation ago, he was very confused and gave this big liberation speech to the province of Quebec!

He was asked to kindly leave and never return.

 

[macmert]

They wouldn't even have to kill units. Nukes are worth a fixed 10 WS (IIRC, DanF told me not too long ago that this was to prevent farming huge WS from nuking big stacks)...so 2-3 would probably have been enough.

But since I was backwards once I went into $$$ buy mode, I banned them. (I eventually caught up again, since 3.19 vassals always trade techs w/ master and therefore I could just BUY a monopoly tech off one guy and broker it for rapid catchup).

Sorry, I will ask a completely different question but I have to ask, how does a vassal trade techs with the master? The vassals I aquired via war never trade with me, also they never tribute techs, oh and once I abused the resource tribute thing, Pacal just lost it and waged war on me... I didnt think it was even possible...

 

[V3N0M]

I fail to understand the meaning in this. France took the worlds largest military super-power and managed (IN RECCORD TIME) to run it into an embarrasing defeat so bad it is comparable to the Spanish defeat of their Armada.

I can not recall any intelligent exploits of DeGaulle, and the only thing that comes to mind is when he visited my country over a generation ago, he was very confused and gave this big liberation speech to the province of Quebec!

He was asked to kindly leave and never return.

Wow seriously? I didn't even know that. I just assumed he ran Free France during the war.

Yeah, I'm an American, why do you ask?

 

[mirthadir]

Wow seriously? I didn't even know that. I just assumed he ran Free France during the war.

Yeah, I'm an American, why do you ask?

"Free France" was a joke until the war was mostly over. De Gaulle managed to get a few thousand French soldiers his side and couldn't even manage to get vast swathes of the French Colonies to back the Free French. Of all the Allied leaders, De Gaulle was the most incompetent, least strategically aware, and generally wretched overall. He made an excellent figurehead, but as a leader he was dragged across the finish line by Stalin, Churchill, and Roosevelt (who were by and large carried by underlings, particularly Stalin).

 

[Grotsnik]

Whenever I come across a situation where a civ should have capped before the war even started, I normally just cheat. I enter worldbuilder and give his nearest city 4 or 5 relevant troops (assuming he has such a pathetic military power that this is a problem to begin with). Then I take the city and normally that gives the player enough points that the Civ doesn't have the "You must be joking" refusal.

I really don't feel bad about about using this method but I only ever bother unless I'm playing Rhys and Fall when it's actually a bad idea to capture too many cities.

I haven't seen any other good mod that even legitimizes vassalage, though. Even in Rhys and Fall, I accidentally collapse a nation I'm trying to cap more times than not.

 

[dalamb]

Sorry, I will ask a completely different question but I have to ask, how does a vassal trade techs with the master? The vassals I aquired via war never trade with me

I thought that in 3.19 they would always trade techs, even if furious. I think prior to this they traded like any AI furious with you, i.e. not at all.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Vassals in 3.19 are always willing to trade. I'm not sure if they will deny based on wonders or "rather win game" (they might not), but they won't refuse based on disposition for sure. Prior to 3.19 such was not true.

 

[Brownsfan02]

i can usually get vassels in the modern era by bombing civs. It works for me all the time.

 

[futurehermit]

vassals have needed work (i.e., 1+ patches) since they were introduced and never really got finished by the designers imo. they always seemed like a good idea in theory, but one that needed to be carried through to completion, but never got there.

 

[r_rolo1]

Well, with Civ V getting out this fall, I would not expect another patch for Civ IV

And to boot, the whole vassal system needs a complete revamp: there is little of the current implementation that can be considered salvagable for a decent system IMHO. That probably would need far more than a patch could give... it is more material for a x-pak that most likely will never come.

 

[Riot]

The things that drive me bonkers is as TMIT mentioned, the peaceweight diplo bonuses amongst the AIs.

Tokugawa: Man, I hate everyone.
Ragnar: Hello samurai-man!
Tokugawa: Hm, this man looks like a mighty warrior. (++ diplo).
Ragnar: Would you like to open your borders with me?
Tokugawa: Of course!

It's utter bs, and it can royally screw you when you have both these types of bozos for neighbors.

Peacevassals also piss me off, as the AI on Immortal+ can still tech amazingly fast with four garbage cities on a tiny peninsula, while their protector gets fed free tech after free tech and builds a humongous empire that's untouchable.