Svartalfar as Jungle Elves

[kumquatelvis]

I'm not entirely certain what's planned for the Svartalfar, but it would be interesting to see them as jungle elves. Essentially they could have all of the same bonuses as the Ljosalfar (extra movement, ability to build farms, etc...), except for jungles instead of forests. Of course, they would need to get more production and/or food from jungles than normal (and to keep things balanced, less from forests).

There are some complications of course; bloom would need to create jungles for them instead of forests, and there would need to be an analogue to Ancient Forests (mayhaps Wild Jungles or something). It may end up being a lot of work, but it would really add a lot of flavor, helping to differentiate them from the Ljosalfar.

 

[Aradiel]

Interresting idea, afaik i doubt it would be that much work as the losfajar scripts only need to be changed to jungle instead of forest. As jungle tiles are usually rather rare they would need an increased spawnrate so they could get the full use of it. The question is how does this work with the fellowship of the leaves ? Probably it would be a darker variant, instead of spawning treants for defensive, the jungletiles could spawn junglebeasts which can be tamed and used for guerilla raids

 

[OzzyKP]

Well it depends on what direction Kael takes with them. But the Norse myth they are based on were subterranean it seems:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svartálfar

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

I would like a jungle civ, but none fit. The only unfinished (minor) vis aren't really lenient toward jungle. Svaltalfer- Forest (Subterrain), Illians- Tundra/Snow, Sidar- WHo knows? But not jungle. I remeber those threads about a lizardman civ. Oh well. That would upset the balance.

 

[Sureshot]

Orcs would be suited to jungles. In my light phase modmod version orcs could build special cottages (the cottages gave more food and production instead of commerce and even some fort like defense) and mines in jungle, and orcs got double moves in jungle and +10% attack/defense in jungles.

Svartalfar ruled the WINTER of the elven empire, so if anything theyd be the forest ones and Ljosalfar would be the jungle ones.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I remember that in Blaze's Maxmod the Orcs are a jungle civ. I think the Clan seems to fit better than any of the others, but still not that great.

 

[BlazeRedSXT]

Yeah, I stole all that pretty directly from Sureshot's mod.
I don't see a problem with Svart and Ljos sharing a terrain.. I mean, technically they are the same race, just divided by religious and political issues (thats my understanding anyway). Their Leaders traits and behaviors make them different enough.
Anyway, I agree that the Orc civs seemed better suited to Jungle terrain (thats why I used SS's jungle/orc stuff).

Cheers!

 

[JDexter]

A Lizardman civ would be really, really cool. Maybe some ratlings, too! (Yes I like Warhammer Fantasy - the Civ3 mod was my favorite before FfH came along )

Of course the problem is that barbarians already have them... and goblins too, which I could see fit in the jungle. Maybe a dark skinned human or dwarven race would be fun, too. It shouldn't copy the Ljosalfar system though...

 

[jwin]

There already is a partially lizardman race. The recon line for the clan is lizardman. I forgot where I had seen the clan building in jungles, and was disapointed in a recent game when I couldn't build there. I think it was a good addition of Surefire's.

 

[Shadius]

The Clan is an alliance of several barbaric races, I believe, though Orcs are most dominant. But even though I've a personal liking towards serpentine races, I wouldn't count on any more civs being added. Well; 21 gods, 21 elements, 21 civs... As I see it, the only way of adding a new civ would be to seriously shake things up, mythology-wise. I'd love to see a lizardman leader for the clan, though (possibly with the sinister trait?).

As for the Svartalfar; turning them into a "jungle civ" seems kinda... well, lame, to be honest. Why would the Svarts live in jungles, exactly, seeing as how they're technically the same nation and people as the Ljos?

The logical route here would be to give them the same forest advantages as the Ljos and change their predilection towards archery by a predilection towards recon units (which is already implemented with the Sinister/Dexterous traits, really). It doesn't feel like the FFH team to make two civs so similar, though, so that's probably not the only thing they've got planned. Whatever they come up with is certain to be worthwhile, at any rate.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

Oh well. That would upset the balance.

That's what I was saying.

 

[Bluenoise]

I don't think it would work to well. It would basically render their terrain useless to other civs. Who would want to invade a land made entirely of jungles?? You could burn them down maybe but then you'd have barren land with no improvements... There would need to be some serious changes to how jungles function for this to work.
I do think that orcs with jungle benefits would be a good idea though.

 

[Thennorin]

I doubt the OP idea will happen. It doesn't mesh with mythology as has already been mentioned and the dev team have stated before that they want each civ to be unique. Using an existing mechanic but swapping one terrain for another won't cut it.

Agree with other posters that the Orcs are best suited to jungle. I'd like to see some race get a bonus for them, anyway. As it is, one civ or another has a bonus for almost every terrain type but the jungles get no love... I guess I'd just like to invade a civ mid to late game and actually find a couple jungle tiles left. And maybe it's just me but I think it suits a barbarian nation to have some wild, untamed land, etc for flavour (but of course they'd be able to improve jungles for gameplay balance).

 

[Sureshot]

orcs getting double moves and bonus attack/def in forests makes jungles last longer, since anyone who tries settling in jungle early on gets swarmed by barbs easily heh

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

Orcs would be suited to jungles. In my light phase modmod version orcs could build special cottages (the cottages gave more food and production instead of commerce and even some fort like defense) and mines in jungle, and orcs got double moves in jungle and +10% attack/defense in jungles.

Svartalfar ruled the WINTER of the elven empire, so if anything theyd be the forest ones and Ljosalfar would be the jungle ones.

Actually, if they did rule winter, and were nature lovers, why not jungle. Unlike forests, jungles don't (usually) wither and die in the winter. I don't think Svatltalfar should be jungle, but still, there's always a chance.

 

[zxcvbnm]

As shadius said, the svartalfar and ljosalfar were until the age of ice the same nation but then when the seelie couldn't get back to power they split and began fighting.
As elves live in temperate forests and the jungles are quite far away from them i think both elven peoples are, and should be, forest and not jungle people.
The clan is the jungle folk because they can build stuff in jungles and have lizards as do the barbs.