Svartalfar

Grey Fox

Master of Points
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I know there are some old thread about this, but I wanna start fresh on the topic. Since I love dark elves and drow I want this civ to be more finished and playable. And since this is a Dark Fantasy setting we can have even more fun with how these darker forms of elves are implemented into the mod.

This is how I see/want dark elves to be in FfH.

Society
Ruled almost entirely by females, the females are thought of as the stronger gender and are respected as such by the males. Perhaps you could call it a Matriarchy. (But maybe not so much the mother. Parents are not a strong influence for a Svartalf) Every individual of the Dark Elven race is very egoistic and competetive though and their whole life is about self-improvement to become better then the others of their race and other races. The Svartalfar society is a pure survival of the fittest society where each individual care for himself or perish. It's frowned upon to even ask for help from another. Maybe this is why their armies has such bad organization? Their archers has always been good though. On the other hand, more individual troops, like assasins etc, excell at what they do, and are probably some of the best in the world at what they do.

Dark Elves has grown attached to the darkness and coldness of the world and they love the night. They are still forest dwellers, the forests they are still allowed to enter that is. Forests somehow seem to be corrupted by their newfound attachment to the death mana though, but they are not late to exploit it.
[I'm thinking a new forest type could be added, Dark Forest that only begin to grow and transform from forests within the Svartalfar nation, an ancient version of it could also be added. The growth could be increased with Fellowship of Leaves state religion. It could work as a normal forest /ancient forest but also give a negative defense bonus to anyone but the Svartalfar]

Tainted alliance
An Idea could be that the svartalfar has become masters of another race. What race you say? Well I was thinking Trolls or something similar. Unlike Warcraft, where trolls look and feel like a part of the Orcish Race, I think it would be cool if they were ruled by the svarfalfar. The Svartalfar purely using them as slaves and soldiers of course. But maybe the trolls feel like part of the Svartalfar. Instead as portraying Trolls as intelligent shamanic beings as in Warcraft, they should have what Svartalfars lack.
As the Svartalfars are more agile, quick and intelligent like their Ljosalfar cousins the Trolls should be more brutal with strenght and toughness being their primary traits. Maybe looking something like a blend between Orcs and the Trolls from LotR.

Buildings
They should have some unique buildings of course. How about something like these:
  • School of Dark Arts - Gives experience to trained mage units? Or a free promotion to all units trained in this city perhaps.
  • Chill of the Forests - National wonder that makes it possible to train Dark Treants in this city. Not sure if this fits the theme of the mod and Im not happy with the name either.

I'll post more ideas in this thread once I think of more, for the moment I'll let it be discussed for a bit first.

 
Grey Fox said:
I'm thinking a new forest type could be added, Dark Forest that only begin to grow and transform from forests within the Svartalfar nation, an ancient version of it could also be added. The growth could be increased with Fellowship of Leaves state religion. It could work as a normal forest /ancient forest but also give a negative defense bonus to anyone but the Svartalfar

Why stop there? Why not give it to all evil civs who follow the Fellowship, but the Svart's get additional bonuses from it, like the Ljosalfar get from Ancient Forest?

As for combat, I see the Svartalfar as the stealth masters of FfH, striking out from who-knows-where, ambushing lone units who wander too far into their domain, then quietly slipping back to the darkness whence they came. Perhaps Svartalfar recon units could get a bonus for attacking from an enemy's fog of war. Like this:
Spoiler Ambush Diagram :

--ooo
oOOOo
oOXOo
oO^Oo
--oYo
X=Enemy Unit
Y=Svartalfar Assassin
o=terrain invisible to X
O=terrain visible to X


It would give them a nice tactical use for the Hidden trait, and a reason not to trade maps with the enemy.
 
the Sidar are the stealth masters, from what ive read the Svartalfar are the necromancers of the game (with some stealth as well, having the Hidden trait on their leader, but the Sidar are the shades).

female dominated and necromancers

now if only i could time travel to the shadow phase
 
Hmm, you have a point there.
But I always thought of the Sidar as being reclusive and uncaring about the affairs of creation, only interfering to fulfil their own obscure agenda, somewhat like the nobodies in the Kingdom Hearts series. In essence, they would be defensively stealthy.

On the other hand, the Svartalfar, who worship the god of thieves and assassins, stalk the dark forests of the world, and train in the ways of swift, painful death (or slow, sadistic torture), would be offensively stealthy.

We already have plenty of necromancers, and for some reason, I can't picture the Sidar as warlike or capable of using stealth offensively. Maybe it's because they worship Arawn or something. :p
 
Sureshot said:
the Sidar are the stealth masters, from what ive read the Svartalfar are the necromancers of the game (with some stealth as well, having the Hidden trait on their leader, but the Sidar are the shades).

female dominated and necromancers

now if only i could time travel to the shadow phase

The 2 main civ mechanics for Shadow are both included in 0.16 in a limited fashion, Invisibility and Hidden Nationality. Just as you said the Sidar are intended to showcase the invisible options and permutations. The Svartalfar are about other aspects of deception, hidden nationality, disguise, illusion, etc. No idea what disguise and illusion mean yet, but thats the piece of the design pie that has been allocated to them.

In FfH lore the svartalfar are matriarchal, they are ruled by a queen just as the ljosalfar are. But they differ from the drow in that they arent an underground race (there is some discussion here because its possible they might have went underground during the age of ice, i havent decided yet and i never chronicled that int he game), and they arent inherently bloodthirsty.

Think of the difference between good faeries (dancing, mystical, wise) and bad faeries (mischievious, troublesome, clever) and you have what the ljosalfar and the svartalfar were during the age of magic. Two sides of the same coin that were alike in more ways than they were different. Now subject both sides to the death of their patron diety, a bloody cival war that almost completly killed both sides and a 400 year ice age. You end up with those same faeries all grown up, toughened by what they have had to do to survive and more alike in personality to men then the elves of former ages.

But still a fey heart beats in them. The ljosalfar hold special meaning for the forests and songs of their ancestors, and the svartalfar pranks has turned into guile and cunning.
 
I'd like to see the Svartalfar have a more 'faerie' touch than regular elves - unable to work cold iron, instead using weapons shaped from magical wood.

First, if possible, all units requiring Iron or better might get a slight bonus against Svartalfar units (10% or so).

This weakness would also prevent them from going beyond Smelting on the metal tech path, but I'm thinking they could get one or a few replacement techs for those wooden weapons - say:

Wood Shaping
Requires crafting and hunting, shared with the Ljosalfar, allows improvements in forests.

Woodsinging (A better name might be in order.)
Requires Drama and Wood Shaping, shared with the Ljosalfar, allows 3-strength Woodsman II "Woodsinger" units that can sacrifice themselves to either create a new forest or to upgrade a specific forest, from new to regular or regular to ancient.

Witchwood
Unique tech for the Svartalfar, requires Woodsinging, Poisons and Necromancy.
Witchwood resources with +2:hammers: randomly spawn in (ancient) forests within their borders. (Or are just revealed with the tech, sort of like pearls.)

This tech and the resource allow Blackguards (or somesuch, Maceman replacements) and is required for all high-tier Svartalfar melee units. These units also deal +1 damage with each attack against living units.
 
Kael said:
The 2 main civ mechanics for Shadow are both included in 0.16 in a limited fashion, Invisibility and Hidden Nationality. Just as you said the Sidar are intended to showcase the invisible options and permutations. The Svartalfar are about other aspects of deception, hidden nationality, disguise, illusion, etc. No idea what disguise and illusion mean yet, but thats the piece of the design pie that has been allocated to them.

In FfH lore the svartalfar are matriarchal, they are ruled by a queen just as the ljosalfar are. But they differ from the drow in that they arent an underground race (there is some discussion here because its possible they might have went underground during the age of ice, i havent decided yet and i never chronicled that int he game), and they arent inherently bloodthirsty.

Think of the difference between good faeries (dancing, mystical, wise) and bad faeries (mischievious, troublesome, clever) and you have what the ljosalfar and the svartalfar were during the age of magic. Two sides of the same coin that were alike in more ways than they were different. Now subject both sides to the death of their patron diety, a bloody cival war that almost completly killed both sides and a 400 year ice age. You end up with those same faeries all grown up, toughened by what they have had to do to survive and more alike in personality to men then the elves of former ages.

But still a fey heart beats in them. The ljosalfar hold special meaning for the forests and songs of their ancestors, and the svartalfar pranks has turned into guile and cunning.
any chance some of their units could be given invisibility now just for fun? lol

and you don't mention necromancy much but i distinctly remember imagining that there was going to be banshees for the svartalfar...
 
Sureshot said:
any chance some of their units could be given invisibility now just for fun? lol

and you don't mention necromancy much but i distinctly remember imagining that there was going to be banshees for the svartalfar...

Yeah definitly. This is just high level deisgn stuff, actual specific unit functions can cover whatever we feel works. So a death magic banshee or an invisible assassin could all be good svartalfar units.
 
It's all so very exciting!
-Qes
 
QES said:
It's all so very exciting!
-Qes

Yeah, I wish we could implement as fast as we can design. I have this final game in my head that I cant wait to play, and it keeps getting improved as people submit ideas, we keeping marching steadily towards reaching it but its a long road.
 
Sureshot said:
and you don't mention necromancy much but i distinctly remember imagining that there was going to be banshees for the svartalfar...

I mentioned the Banshees as examples of twisted faeries, for that is what they in fact are in Irish Folklore - faeries whose mission in "life" is to foretell deaths in specific families. They are not, however, ghosts, ghouls, zombies or undead (rather, immortals), although I can see how the mistake is easy to make.
 
Ah, well, there's the explanation. I've never played D&D, so I only know them as faerie bearers of ill news.
 
Sureshot said:
in d&d they can 'keen' or 'wail' which kills anything nearby instantly (they get to make a wil save heh)

SOMEONE's a huge ubernerd.
-Qes

EDIT: OH wait, i think its me.
 
Just dont make the svartalfar a bunch of soft but creepy fairies... This is a DARK fantasy setting. Even in regular fantasy settings they are usually pretty evil. I want them to be really EVIL! Chaotic Evil, based on them being egoistic and greedy. (IMO)

Dont make them fairies that like to pull creepy pranks. I want them to stab you in the back before you even saw them coming, and then just laugh about it. (With big boobies!)
 
Grey Fox said:
Just dont make the svartalfar a bunch of soft but creepy fairies... This is a DARK fantasy setting. Even in regular fantasy settings they are usually pretty evil. I want them to be really EVIL! Chaotic Evil, based on them being egoistic and greedy. (IMO)

Dont make them fairies that like to pull creepy pranks. I want them to stab you in the back before you even saw them coming, and then just laugh about it. (With big boobies!)

Yeah, I dont want Forest Imps for Dark Elves. Lest we devolve into 8-bit humor. I know, I know, we all want to be Garland. But no.
-Qes
 
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