Sweden strategies?

[Eagle Pursuit]

Judging from the poll on the next thread over, most people find Sweden to be weak.

I ask the questions then:

What is the best way to use Sweden's abilities and units?

What is the best victory type for them?

What is the best way to use Hakkapelitta?

The victory/strategy that I've been considering is stockpiling the less useful great persons such as Merchants, later Prophets, Admirals, Generals and such then using them to sway a bunch of city-states just before the vote.

 

[notadummy]

I just won a nice turn 300 science victory with them on immortal, made lots of DOF and got some nice GS boosts. I ended up with a total of 11 GS in the end... Since in my religion I picked the one that makes it so that your religion spreads faster (32% faster??), my 3rd and 4th great prophets spread my religion 3 times, and I gifted them after.

Anyways, they can also be a great warmongering civ. Their UU are so good! Not gamebreaking, but definitely pretty awesome and powerful. With warmongering comes lots of GG, so you could gift your extra GG's away to citystates.

 

[Khadroth]

Judging from the poll on the next thread over, most people find Sweden to be weak.

I ask the questions then:

What is the best way to use Sweden's abilities and units?

What is the best victory type for them?

What is the best way to use Hakkapelitta?

The victory/strategy that I've been considering is stockpiling the less useful great persons such as Merchants, later Prophets, Admirals, Generals and such then using them to sway a bunch of city-states just before the vote.

I'm on turn 300 on a domination game with them. They're surprisingly powerful once you get rifling. Early on you can use your excess generals for free CS allies. I tried to avoid getting march on my warriors/swords/longswords/muskets because I knew I that upgrading them to Caroleans would give the free promotion. As a result I had an amazingly durable fighting force which could take a beating at range, heal everyone around them, and attack multiple times a turn. My front line was a virtual meat grinder once I got artillery as as I had them stacked 2 spaces back, my +range gattlings 1 space back, and my infantry just marching forward all the time, rarely having to stop to heal. I tried to keep my generals stacked with the hakkapelittas on the flanks to get the generals the movement bonus and the let the hakkas run around the edges for hit and run attacks on sides to let the infantry on my sides not have to stop as often (which often caused my front line to actually bow around an upcoming city and envelope it perfectly).

Unfortunately I misplayed this game and don't think I'm going to win, as my Empire's happiness is just in the tank with no way to get it out. I stupidly neglected to grab meritocracy which would have saved me this problem, and by the time I solve it, Gandi will be nuking my ass. Other than my mishandling though Sweden proved to be a surprisingly strong warmonger, and using the strategy I outlined above I managed to take down Japan (who had out teched me quite a bit at the time) without losing a single unit.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Their "give a GP away" UA feels weak (although peaceful players might sacrifice their Great Generals ), but their secondary bonus is GREAT.

+10% GP generation for each declaration of friendship is HUGE during the early game. It is difficult to pull off in SP due to the... er... random AI behaviour, but in my game I managed to make four early declarations - and had +40% when I received my free amphitheatre.

I managed to get so many Great Artists that I spend over 100 turns in golden ages.

So the strategy:
(1) Early declaration of friendship
(2) Get early specialist buildings
(3) Profit

I think Sweden is great for culture and military games. Culture because you their GP boost is benefitial for getting GA early on, while their unique units feel REALLY powerful for military conquest during the later game.

 

[DemonMaster]

Until renaissance I played them like any other civ, although I was very careful when it comes to my actions, I kept my promises and of course no backstabbing. That didn't mean that I didn't go to war, I went to a lot of wars, a took a city here and a city there. During the renaissance I jumped on the most hated guy in the game (Romans) and I did it jointly with my good friend Oda.
I used my Hakkas as a main centre force and they attacked first and fell back and let the musketmen take out the leftovers.
I was lucky (hmm, during the end of that war, the Polynesian backstabbed me. The lucky part was that I was close to Rifling. I ended the war with the Romans (I got the capital so it wasn't hard) and starting the long walk home, on that road, my musketmen became Carolines and healed up still walking.
I eventually won both over the Polys and the Romans. I was friends with two, sometimes three civs at all time (small). It isn't that hard to be friends as long as you are trustworthy. Up to the industrial time I used only one GP to ally a CS (a military CS with a border to the Polys during their backstabb). But I used more in the late game (even a GS ) to be friends with CS with good resources. I even allied a CS that the Roman (leftovers) had as an ally when a notification came up that he has completed Manhattan (the CS had Uranium).
I could have won a diplomatic victory (I won a scientific victory) if I wanted. The trick with the 90 influence (if a diplo victory) is to watch the spygame to know what CSs you need to avoid (some CS seems to be Republica de los Bananas).

 

[Khadroth]

Their "give a GP away" UA feels weak (although peaceful players might sacrifice their Great Generals ), but their secondary bonus is GREAT.

+10% GP generation for each declaration of friendship is HUGE during the early game. It is difficult to pull off in SP due to the... er... random AI behaviour, but in my game I managed to make four early declarations - and had +40% when I received my free amphitheatre.

I managed to get so many Great Artists that I spend over 100 turns in golden ages.

So the strategy:
(1) Early declaration of friendship
(2) Get early specialist buildings
(3) Profit

I think Sweden is great for culture and military games. Culture because you their GP boost is benefitial for getting GA early on, while their unique units feel REALLY powerful for military conquest during the later game.

I wouldn't say that their GP gifting is weak. Especially with the points you made about the other half of their UA. At +40% GP generation you're pumping out tons of generals/admirals in a warmonger game. So much so that unless you want to try some crazy citadel usage (which with how fast you'll be marching with the Caroleans, you really don't need), you just have far too many to ever use.

The only part that I don't like about their UA is the fact that you also boost your friend's generation, but I suppose such a powerful ability needs a downside. Just be careful, as it might not be a smart idea to befriend the tech leader as a result (as if it already wasn't a good to avoid signing RA's with them).

 

[Lyoncet]

I just finished up G&K game 3 last night with Sweden, and here's what I found. Settings were Epic speed, Europe map script, normal size, 8 players, 16 CS, Immortal.

I generally don't do really early rushes, like beelining Swordsmen. Generally, I try to sit back and focus on research infrastructure, then gear up when I've had time to get a couple decent production centers and a later era war tech path. So given I was Sweden, I played goody-two-shoes up until Rifling. Through using DoFs and denouncements strategically, I managed to separate the world into two blocs: me, Gandhi, Alexander, Oda, and Harun al-Rashid vs. and Boudica Halie Selassie. I had 5 concurrent DoFs for most of this (Rome, being in England, was a latecomer, so he wasn't really in the bloc but we did have a DoF), so I was getting a good number of great people along with the Research Agreement benefits. Once I had a decent force of Caroleans and cannons, I DoWed on Halie Selassie, which no-one cared about. In fact 4 other leaders DoWed on him in a couple turns. Because everyone hated him, I didn't get any warmonger hate and left him on 1 crappy isolated city. After that point, toppling everybody else was a cinch. I probably donated 5 or 6 Great Generals (and the 2 free Great Admirals I got) to city-states, and was allied with 14 of 16 by the end. It was just a matter of which order to kill off everyone else. I literally only lost 2 units against everyone up to Harun al-Rashid, who maybe killed 4 or 5 because by that point I was just trying to win ASAP. Ended up with a score of 6011.

I don't know if that's the optimal strategy, but it does play well to their strengths. The real problem with Sweden is that they have two UUs, both midgame (and I didn't find Hakkapeliita that good TBH), and a UA that really doesn't play well with war. But if you play nice early on, you can really use those extra GPs to get yourself a substantial advantage, which synergizes well with a strong Rifle replacement. I wouldn't say they're a contender for the top tier or anything, but if you play their UA to the strength of the Carolean, they're plenty strong. With combat slowing down somewhat, the fact that they can heal 20 HP every turn even while in enemy lands (if you have medics) is an enormous advantage, especially if you can grap a tech lead. Not quite Janissary good, even post-G&K Janissary good, but March man. It's strong.

Almost forgot to add: the Swedish war theme is actually borderline overpowered.

 

[Babri]

The Hackapells are quite weak for a UU, Caroleons are great though. Their UA is unique & good in some cases but the real skill is to properly use their UA & UUs as one focuses on the peace while the other on war.

 

[doveni]

Game set up:
Continents
Standard speed
Immortal
Sweden

I am currently researching plastics and pumping out over 400 culture/turn. Got an isolated start, and found only 2 cities aiming for culture from the very begining. My second city got Petra, and that was my first short term goal. Combined with desert folklore, I had really powerhouse city. With folklore I had enough faith to found a religion which I didnt manage to spread far away, since neighboring Maya has too strong religion. Having Petra, made my city as powerfull as capitol.
Later on I have founded 3rd city.
Didn't use a GPs to generate favour with CS at all. Keeping up my good relations from the start of the game with 4 CS: 2 cultured, 1 mercantile, 1 maritime. I have managed to build almost every wonder I needed, but I didnt plan for Chichen Itza, which turned to be very powerfull wonder for my golden age spam strategy. Nevertheless I am almost all the time in golden age since I have like 5 DoFs all the time, gardens, Pisa tower, arround 150% great person bonus rate, which gives me endless GA spam.

I have never been at war, and curently have decent fleet arround my island, so there is no real interest in DOWing me.

Since I am friends with everyone, I have all RA up all the time, which brought me to a tech leader.
I have my capitol culture focused, 2nd city with petra and observatory, focused on science, and my 3rd city is culture focused as well.

I am pritty sure I will be able to opt for a culture, diplomacy, or even science victory.

 

[iconocast]

go honour

gift the great general to a cs for instant ally, for food grow helping ur capital get nice and big fast or military cs for units letting u focuse on building in ur capital. that is a very solid start.

something im toying with,i dont found my own relegion i actualy gift my profets away to cs for ally rep.

hunt barbs for culture( even easyer wit a military cs ally gifted units) cs rep. pledge to protect, but remeber if u do u are going to need to have a decent army to scare of bullys.

ur also going to get gg faster and that will let u gift them away for more cs rep.

now u need to play the diplomacy game very smart, u need to be aware of what other civs will get pissed at try to avoid it but dont come off weak. get some dof going and other civs will usualy join in, makeing a kind of diplomatic boarders that will usualy split between warmongers and the less agressive civs.

focus on science, diplomatic victory is a long way away, and u are going to use unis and gp bonus to pump out scientists. and u will pump them out.

dont be afraid to go to war. u benefit from it by getting great generals faster ( gg's) and ur uu are built to be mobile and hard. just make sure ur not the agressor to avoid bad diplomacy hits, denounceing can usualy make ur dof denounce them as well.
also ur are able to smash annyone going for a culture victory, as it usualy comes about the time u get ur uu

sweden starts to bloom in industrial

things u want to build are

leaning tower
gardens
natonal monumnet thing

 

[RealHuhn]

[snap]
The real problem with Sweden is that they have two UUs, both midgame (and I didn't find Hakkapeliita that good TBH)

Remember that Hakkas get a +15% combat bonus when they are on the same tile as a great general.
With 5 movement points, you should always surround an enemy unit for the flanking bonuses and move your general around so that every Hakka attacks with the +15%.
So, overall you can get +15% (normal GG bonus) +15% (GG same tile) + 10-30% (flanking bonus, not sure how much).
Rush in, kill all units and retreat. A great UU when you build them early enough and they cut through units like butter.

Cities are a bit tougher but again, if you play your cards right, you never get hit anyway and caroleans can support them later on.

 

[Wuddel]

I am currently in a game (Immortal, continents) and for some reason Darius und Sejong just took off massively (I was locked on a island with 4 cities in total). Their UU Caroleans are good to make decent soldiers right of the bat.

Sweden is straigt up warmongerer with 1-2 close friends for the GP-generation boost. But you want to warmonget to get great general that you can gift away. It saved my ass when I discovered that I had zero strategic ressources on my Island -> no Oil kills you.

 

[GenjiKhan]

I may be wrong,but If it's easier to get friends if you don't found a religion,then I'd be worthy to invest in faith early with Sweden and then,give the Great Prophets earned to city-states . Also,if you have a neighbor that'll likely found a religion,it may be worth it to adopt its religion,which avoids a DOW and guarantees a DOF .

 

[trystero49]

I think Sweden's UUs are bizarre given Sweden's UA. With a UU that is Great General oriented and a UU that has a bonus in foreign territory you would want to be waging quite a bit of war, especially since both these units come in the same era, not to mention you'd have cannons, and it's easy to get both of these units quickly, since they are down the same tech path. But by the time you get these two units, you will have cities large enough to comfortably work specialist buildings (and you probably have been already), what with universities, if you stopped by there first, or amphitheaters, or whatever. I would prefer if Sweden's UUs came early in the game, say, the ancient or classical era. Or even the medieval era. This way, you could focus on eliminating early rivals and maybe even securing dominance in the entire continent, and then when you have finished with that you could make some friends on the other continent and then generate Great Scientists with university/public school/research lab so you can go for a science victory (by using the GS) or a diplomacy victory (by giving them away). As it stands, when I play Sweden, I feel compelled to go to war at the same time I want to be friends.

 

[S.K. Ren]

I think Sweden's UUs are bizarre given Sweden's UA. With a UU that is Great General oriented and a UU that has a bonus in foreign territory you would want to be waging quite a bit of war, especially since both these units come in the same era, not to mention you'd have cannons, and it's easy to get both of these units quickly, since they are down the same tech path. But by the time you get these two units, you will have cities large enough to comfortably work specialist buildings (and you probably have been already), what with universities, if you stopped by there first, or amphitheaters, or whatever. I would prefer if Sweden's UUs came early in the game, say, the ancient or classical era. Or even the medieval era. This way, you could focus on eliminating early rivals and maybe even securing dominance in the entire continent, and then when you have finished with that you could make some friends on the other continent and then generate Great Scientists with university/public school/research lab so you can go for a science victory (by using the GS) or a diplomacy victory (by giving them away). As it stands, when I play Sweden, I feel compelled to go to war at the same time I want to be friends.

Think of it this way: If an AI DoWs you, you're not going to want to invest a lot of extra production in military if you've been playing for a peaceful VC. Having the March promotion form the get go means you can traipse around in your opponents land, wreck him and make him surrender faster when you don't have to worry about healing up as often.

 

[Darkeagle6]

I'm currently playing a game as Sweden on Pangea, King level, and I've achieved an absolutely ridiculous Great Person bonus, involving frienships with 6 of the other civs (we all denounced Inca XD), national epic, leaning tower of Pisa, freedom opener... there might have been more, I don't quite remember. Having tall cities which can fill up all specialist slots means that you can produce great people abnormally fast, and so I still have a lot of city state allies in spite of runaway Alexander's attempts to overthrow me. Combined with Pledge to Protect, that one Patronage policy and Papal Primacy founder belief (which add up to 45 influence resting point), a gifted great person brings a city state up to 135 influence, which makes it difficult for an AI to dislodge you. Great for Diplo victory.

It's quite true that the UUs are very strong attackers; this was quite helpful in my war against the Inca (which gave me bonus diplo with pretty much everyone, not to mention Inca declared first), but it is worth noting that the Carolean is also an excellent defensive unit. The March promotion ensures that even if he attacks an enemy unit that turn, the Carolean is still guaranteed to heal 20HP every turn when he's in your borders. This means that a small fighting force of Caroleans can survive a much bigger force if you let them switch with others and support them with a bit of range. This is something I realised as Inca (underteched in comparison to me) was unable to take down my two Caroleans + Knights with its much bigger army. I haven't played much with the other UU (can't remember the exact name); in fact, my main experience with it was as Spain, as I was allied with a Militaristic city state which gifted me a couple. They helped keep my Great General up with my Cavalry, which was fantastic.

All in all, good Civ for tall empires (GP spam) if you have a map that will allow you to have lots of friends (in the aformentioned game, I spawned fairly far away from other civs, and was protected by a natural barrier of hills with some mountains). Alternatively, play your warmogering well, and you'll have some pretty awesome UUs by the Renaissance to finish things (Or at least push you much closer to victory). Free March promotion is really good.