Swedish civilization development

[Optimizer]

This thread is about ideas for a Swedish civilization.

There is already a Norse civilization here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=381475

Here are some of my ideas:

Colours: Blue/yellow
Symbol: Three crowns
UU: Carolean (infantry, cavalry or artillery): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroleans
UU: Tunnan/Viggen/Gripen fighter
Unique ability: Swedish Steel: Mines and Lumber Mills give +1 production or Folkhemmet: Social Policies cost 15% less

Civilopedia (a paraphrase of an old Wikipedia text)

Between the eighth and eleventh centuries AD, Swedish Vikings traveled to Finland, the Baltic countries, Russia and Constantinople. In the 9th century Swedish Vikings which were called "Rus" by people in Eastern Europe, were invited by Slavic tribes to become a ruling warrior class, which later conquered many European cities and founded colonies.

Viking raids declined as Christianity replaced Norse paganism during the 11th century, and the Suionean and Geatic provices united into a single monarchy. Swedish kings colonized and christened present-day Finland, creating conflicts with the Rus. In 1319, Sweden and Norway were united under king Magnus Eriksson, and in 1397 Queen Margaret I of Denmark effected the personal union of Sweden, Norway, and Denmark through the Kalmar Union. However, real power was held for long periods by regents elected by the Swedish parliament. King Christian II of Denmark, who asserted his claim to Sweden by force of arms, ordered a massacre in 1520 of Swedish nobles at Stockholm, later known as the “Stockholm blood bath”. Swedish nobility rose against Denmark, and in 1523, Gustav Vasa, Sweden's "Father of the Nation", became king, marking the foundation of modern Sweden. Shortly afterwards he led Sweden through the Protestant Reformation, seizing property from the church.

Sweden became a Great Power in Europe during the 17th century, as king Gustav II Adolph was one of the victors in the Thirty Years' War. The empire reached its largest extent, almost surrounding the Baltic Sea, during the rule of Charles X in 1658. However, more than half a century of almost constant warfare had deteriorated the Swedish economy, and king Charles XI (1655-1697), had to restore the finances and refit the army. Following Charles' death and succession by 17-year old Charles XII, Denmark and Russia started the Great Northern War against Sweden to regain lost ground. Young king Charles crushed the initial attacks, but an overambitious campaign against Russia ended in Sweden's worst defeat ever at the Battle of Poltava (1709). After years of exile in the Ottoman empire, the king returned home, and attempted to invade Norway, but died on 30 November 1718. This ended Sweden's rule of the Baltic Sea with Russia taking its place.

The death of Charles XII led to the Age of Liberty, with relatively wide political freedom, and some of Sweden's finest scientists and artists such as botanist Carl von Linne and songwriter Carl Michael Bellman. Russia grew stronger, and won new wars against Sweden, seizing the Finnish provinces. During the Napoleonic War, Sweden fought France and its allies, among them Denmark-Norway. The Treaty of Kiel in 1814 granted Norway to Sweden, but Norway refused and declared independence. King Charles XIII attacked Norway the same year, enforcing a personal union with Sweden. Since then, Sweden has had almost two centuries of constant peace.

Sweden became overpopulated in the 19th century, famously attributed in 1833 by the writer Esaias Tegner to "the peace, the (smallpox) vaccine, and the potatoes". One million Swedes - a quarter of the total population - emigrated to North America. Between 1870 and 1914, Sweden began a rapid industrialization, as inventors created all new branches of industry. One notable example is Alfred Nobel, inventor of dynamite and founder of the world's most reputable award in science, literature and peace.

Strong grassroots movements sprung up (unions, temperance groups, and independent Christian congregations), creating a base for democracy. As Norway broke the union in 1905, Sweden's present borders were defined. A Socialist revolution was avoided in 1917, following the re-introduction of Parliamentarism, and universal suffrage for men and women was established in 1922. Since then, the Social Democratic party has ruled Sweden most of the time. In World War II, Sweden was surrounded by the Axis, and though officially neutral, Germany was allowed to buy goods and move troops through Sweden. Towards the end of the war, Sweden played a major role in the humanitarian efforts.

Following the war, Sweden took advantage of an intact industrial base, social stability and natural resources, and by the 1960s, Sweden had become an affluent consumer society and welfare state. Though non-aligned throughout the Cold War, Sweden is well integrated with the rest of Western Europe and joined the European Union in 1995. Today, Sweden is world-leading in life expectancy, democracy and information technology.

Here is a list of Swedish cities
* which were cities at the 1971 reform (excluding revoked city charters)
* which have not been annexed by another municipality (excluding Lödöse and Skänninge)
* in territory that has been Swedish since the 16th century (excluding Finland, Skåne, Gotland, Lappland etc)
* in order of chartering (except Stockholm, which comes first).

Stockholm, Sigtuna, Skara, Västerås, Södertälje, Kalmar, Nyköping, Arboga, Falköping, Söderköping, Västervik, Örebro, Jönköping, Uppsala, Linköping, Enköping, Trosa, Strängnäs, Växjö, Östhammar, Norrköping, Hjo, Skövde, Ulricehamn, Vadstena, Vimmerby, Eksjö, Gävle, Hedemora, Lidköping, Karlstad, Härnösand, Umeå, Göteborg, Luleå, Borås, Sundsvall, Falun, Vänersborg, Eskilstuna, Karlskrona, Skellefteå, Haparanda, Oskarshamn, Motala, Örnsköldsvik, Nässjö, Trollhättan, Katrineholm, Boden

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_över_städer_i_Sverige

 

[Louis XXIV]

Can you give some thoughts for what those units are and why you chose them (as well as why you chose the ability that you did). I don't know enough about Swedish military history to give any concrete suggestions, but I do feel that the first unit you are suggesting would be in the Musketmen/Lancer/Cannon stage of the game. In fact, that to me is the height of the Swedish empire. You want to represent the Sweden that fought in the Thirty Years War and the Great Northern War.

For me, the biggest thing that comes to mind is Gustav II Adolf. Charles X is a good choice as well, but he doesn't stand out as much (for two reasons, one because Charles is quite common a name for a European King and, two, because Gustav was so influential in military tactics). Gustav Adolf was influential in large scale use of field artillery in battles. I'd actually suggest some kind of field artillery (cannon replacement) as a UU. Colors are a perfect choice, but that goes without saying.

 

[veBear]

The Hakkepelitta (think that was its name) should be the second UU. It did far more for the swedish military than the Karolin ever did.

 

[veBear]

Here is some info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakkapeliitta

 

[Le Sage]

No. Not the Hakkapeliitta. The Swedish unit should without a doubt be the Karoliner. These were the soldiers who kept Sweden at its height although the nation lacked resources.

However, I really think you should add Finnish cities to the Swedish Empire as well. Åbo, Tavastehus and Viborg were three of the most important cities in the entire Swedish Empire during its heyday. Maybe even add Vasa (a city with a most Swedish name). The Finnish people were considered natural Swedes up until 1809 and Finland was an integrated part of the empire and considered a natural part of it (like Norrland or Skåne today), and that should be reflected in a mod covering Swedish history as well.

 

[labrynianrebel]

This mod should also rename Stockholm to something like Reykjavík, Kiev or something not Swedish.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I think that goes without saying, but pick a maritime replacement. Malta might not be a bad choice. Or Carthage.

 

[veBear]

Not Carthage, as this would require heavy edit as they will with a high propability add a Carthaginian civ. So I say Malta or maybe Riga. Reykjavik is in my Norse civs city list, so I think it might not fit. Also, I think that the best swede civ would be using both Karolin and Hakkepeliita as UU, thus exculding Gripen, but this is your choiche after all.

Also, on the funny facts part of the pedia, you need to mention the Swedish-Norwegian cuarrel on who killed Karl XII. Both sides claim the "glory" of getting rid of him

 

[DioBrando]

I also did a thread about it, should we move the general discussion to this thread?

For my input, check out this thread

I focused on Gustavus Adolphus, and as you can read in the thread, there's the idea of actually making three leaders to the civilization. I feel that there is enough inspiration to make three unique but very flavorful playstyles based on the Swedish civilization (four, including the viking age)

I suggest we cooperate on this and help eachother out, but if you're deadset on making your own mod with your ideas only, then we'll have to do them seperately. If that is the sad case, then feel free to read my ideas and be inspired by them.

If we cooperate, then the biggest question so far is: should we make the three kings very different from eachother, and what should we change? Gustav Vasa is pretty interesting, Gustav Adolphus should definitely have Karoliner and Hakkapellis as his UUs, and Gustav III should be more focused on culture and administration. That is if we want them different. The other way to go is to keep the UUs (gripen and karoliner) and just give the leaders different traits.

All in all, there is one thing we should all agree on: the visual design.

 

[veBear]

Until Firaxis starts adding more leadrers to their civs, I think we should stick with one per civ.

 

[labrynianrebel]

Riga would be a good replacement, it's maritime, located in the neighborhood, is VERY unlikely to be added by Firaxis.

 

[DioBrando]

Until Firaxis starts adding more leadrers to their civs, I think we should stick with one per civ.

I was thinking along the lines of doing three mods, so people can choose what "Sweden" they want to play as. If I were the sole modder, i'd only make one, but several people seems to want to do this so we might as well make them compatible with each other, in some way or another.

 

[McKampela]

I was making a Finnish Civilization for my personal joy and used Hakkapeliitta as the unique unit... Nevermind that.

In my opinion, you should stick with one leader for start see how that goes. To get better quality and so. If you are using Hakkapell as UU, you really should make some finnish cities like Åbo one of the first cities in list. Lke one of the first five or something.

 

[Le Sage]

As for a leader, I think you shouldn't be going with any obvious figure from Swedish History like Gustav Vasa or Gustav II Adolf, but make it more interesting by making a leader like Gustav III or why not, Olof Palme, who was one of the real greats of twentieth century European politics, whose murder in 1986 spelled the end of an era in Swedish politics (you don't see Sweden taking the strong leadership in foreign affairs or Human Rights issues anymore like it did during and before Palme).

A Finnish civ would also be interesting! Why not make the special unit "The White Death" (what the Russians called the Finnish ski-soldiers during the Winter War) and the leader could indeed be Mannerheim, or Kekkonen (the obvious one).

 

[Louis XXIV]

Why not go with the obvious leader? Can you think of any time Firaxis didn't go with an obvious choice (for reasons aside from gender equality)? They are often well-known for a reason.

 

[Le Sage]

I didn't know much about Ramkhamhamahamheng until they introduced him, nor did I know of the Songhai leader until he popped up in Civ5. So those are both examples of leaders for new Civ5 nations that weren't just obvious. Or the Chinese leader. Where does she come from all of a sudden? I'd thought Shi Huangdi, the builder of the Great Wall and the Terracotta Army would have been on the Chinese throne in Civ5 naturally. These "unknowns" are all very inspirational though and I like them all!

To make it more interesting, there could be added the not-so-obvious ones for a Sweden-Civ too, like Gustav III, who was an impressive figure IRL actually and not too many are informed about. Or Olof Palme. The downside of Olof Palme is that he's quite recent and represented a Political Party in Sweden that is still today very much alive and kicking, and we don't want the political implications. Therefore I'd say - go with Gustav III.

 

[DioBrando]

Why not go with the obvious leader? Can you think of any time Firaxis didn't go with an obvious choice (for reasons aside from gender equality)? They are often well-known for a reason.

Well, look at most of civ 3. And at Wu Zetian, of course

But i agree, the thing is that Sweden doesn't really have an obvious choice. Olof Palme would be a bit awkward though. He was a great politician, but you can't really compare him to Napoleon or Washington.

Edit: I like the idea of Gustav III though. Would probably be the best if we only have to settle with one leader, since he's very flexible. I still feel that the Caroleans should be an unique unit, but if you aren't playing as Gustav Adolph, you might just skip Hakkapellis and let the Finland mods use them instead.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Well, look at most of civ 3. And at Wu Zetian, of course

I still don't think this is a big deal. They're trying to make a game and have it appeal to as broad an audience as possible. Plus, it's not like Wu Zetain is completely unqualified to be in the game.

But i agree, the thing is that Sweden doesn't really have an obvious choice. Olof Palme would be a bit awkward though. He was a great politician, but you can't really compare him to Napoleon or Washington.

I feel Gustav Adolf is fairly well-known to any student of history familiar with the period and his contributions to Sweden were quite obvious.

Edit: I like the idea of Gustav III though. Would probably be the best if we only have to settle with one leader, since he's very flexible. I still feel that the Caroleans should be an unique unit, but if you aren't playing as Gustav Adolph, you might just skip Hakkapellis and let the Finland mods use them instead.

Gustav III isn't bad, although I feel he faced as many setbacks as accomplishments. Keep in mind that the UU doesn't have to directly mirror the leader and there can be two UUs (I actually feel this should be encouraged. It's far easier to think of a UU and a UB and most mods will probably end up with this pattern).

 

[richardsvensson]

My suggestion is to make 3 leaders, although I understand the benefits of focusing on one,...

Have a look at:
http://www.richardsvensson.se/civ/CIVSwedishEmpire.pdf

I have an idea of perhaps changing the benefits of the Civil Policies to make the civ/leader more characteristic. (One bonus and one penalty)

Which questions have to be answered now? The choice of Leader? Maybe it could be a good idea to make a priority list of the questions?

 

[veBear]

If we are going for an unknown leader to representent sweden, I say Birger Jarl. This guy is indeed very unknown and it would be fun to bring him into the light. I did not know about him until recently, but have to say that he is a much better swedish Medieval LH than Erik den Hellige.