Synthetic civs: Americans, Soviets, Nazis

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interrupt_00h

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Civilization 3 includes American civilization. But American civilization is actually synthetic civilization, created from merging of several other civilizations. Why not to include other synthetic civilizations, like Nazi civilization (formed from German civilization) and Soviet civilization (formed from Russian civilization + natives) too? After all, game makers admitted that cossack movement (special unit of Russia in Civilization 3) was eliminated under Soviet rule. By the way, giving Panzer tanks to Germans or Nazis is not fair, because Soviet T-34 tank beaten them. Also, giving F-15 fighters to America is also not fair, because Soviet MiG-29 and Su-27 beaten them.

So, we have three synthetic civilizations: AMERICANS, NAZIS and SOVIETS.

1.AMERICANS (United States of America)

Favourite goverment: Democracy

Special unit: Stratofortress (heavy bomber)

From history, favourite tactic of America was sending waves of heavy high-height (that means invicible for anti-aircraft artillery) bombers in carpet bombing runs. Only when American bombers faced anti-aircraft missiles (S-75 "Dvina") and anti-missile cannons ("Shkwal", which could shoot 90% of American cruise missiles) during Cuban Missile Crisis, they were forced to revise their tactics, focusing on ICBMs.

Great wonder: [all American wonders are already implemented in Civilization 3]

2.NAZIS (Third Reich)

Favourite goverment: Nazism (Communism)

Special unit: Fau (long-range missile)

Nazis were brilliant rocket engineers. Even in hard year of 1945, they were planning to launch first space rocket in August of 1947. They were the first ones who invented long-range missiles. Fau missile carries even more explosives than modern Soviet SCUD missile (though has much less range and accuracy), but it was invented much earlier. However, Soviet rocket scientist Sergei Korolyov beaten Werner Von Braun by launching Sputnik One.

Great wonder: SS Order Castle
Effect: places barracks in every city

In their struggle to create "superhuman" ("ubermensch"), Nazis developed unique training system, which filtered out useless human material and created true warriors. Nazis undergo such training in SS Order Castles. When they receive black uniform of SS troopers, they undergo last, hardest test - test for death.

3.SOVIETS (Soviet Union a.k.a. Red Empire)

Favourite goverment: Communism

Special unit: [good question - Soviets were superior in almost all fields of military technology, so we had to choose from three units]

Special unit #1: T-tank (tank)

T-tanks are the most succesfull tank series ever existed. T-34 is a brilliant piece of engineering art. This tank changed course of history. Being superior to German Panzers, it beaten them in Battle at Prokhorovka (unique tank-only battle) during Kursk Offensive (largest military campaign in human history). Also, all T-tank series were superior to tanks of America. T-34 beats Sherman, T-55 beats Patton, and T-80 beats Abrams.

Special unit #2: MiG (jet fighter)

All MiGs were brilliant. First MiGs like MiG-15 and MiG-17 easily beaten American jet fighters like "Sabre" and "Shootingstar" in battle for Korea (Yalutzyan Operation proved their ability to shoot down American heavy bombers and jet fighters without taking casualities). MiG-21 easily burned American aircrafts in skies of Vietnam, proving to be best dogfighting aircraft of its time. MiG-23, even being outdated now, matched newest American fighters like F-16. MiG-25 is simply the masterpiece - Sidewinder air-to-air missiles travel slower, than this brilliant machine. MiG-29 was created in 1970ies, but it still can destroy any Western jet fighter, including experimental ones, in combat. MiG-31 carries missiles with more than 400 kms range, while most long range missile West posesses is "Phoenix" (can be fitted on F-14 Tomcat only) with 130 kms range. MiG-MFI possesses supernatural maneurability and sci-fi edge plasma stealth field generator (renders aircraft completely invisible and can be used to create fake targets). From all sides, MiG series are the most successfull jet fighter series in history.

Special unit #3: Typhoon (nuclear submarine, can carry double amount of tactical nukes)

This submarine is piece of art. It is really huge and has unorthodox design. Armored with double titanium plating, it can easily endure torpedo attack (and can let submarine dive so deep that nothing could follow). It is also equipped with archimedes rotor, which gives this submarine excellent speed and stealth abilities. Nuclear missiles, carried by this submarine, are also brilliant. Revolutionary rocket technology allowed to radically decrease size of missiles, so Typhoon carries much more of them.

Great wonder: [lots of wonders here]

Great wonder #1: Lenin's Mausoleum
Effect: increasing morale

Tomb of father of Soviet Union, this building has great influence on Soviet people. Building look simple, but it was built using advanced engineering technologies.

Great wonder #2: MGU
Effect: doubles effect of universities

Tallest prisoner-made building in history, Moscow Govermental University (MGU) building is even taller than Egypt Pyramids. This building is symbol of Soviet education system. Soviet education system proved to be the most efficient system ever. Focusing around natural sciences and engineering, it allowed Soviet Union to create true miracles of technology.

Great wonder #3: Palace of Soviets
Effect: works just the same as palace

This tremendous building was never completed, but it was desined to be tallest and largest building on planet, with humongous Lenin's statue on top. Constructed using latest engineering technologies, this building was supposed to house Soviet parliament.

Great wonder #4: Sputnik One
Effects: gives Sattelites tech (requires Rocketry tech)

Soviets were the first ones who touched space. Delivered by R-7 heavy rocket (constructed by Chief Designer Sergei Pavlovich Korolyov), Sputnik One is first sattelite in human history. R-7 is powerfull enough to carry man to space (first man in space was Soviet citizen Yuri Gagarin) or even carry man to moon in one-way trip (however, Soviet leaders didn't used this opportunity).

Minor wonder: Uragan Project
Effects: eliminates effect of enemy Strategic Defence Initiative

When Americans claimed that they want to build Strategic Defence Initiative, Soviets already had an adequate response. Uragan Project is cheap, but efficient way to counter it. According to this project, fleet of Soviet space fighters should eliminate all American spaceships and sattelites in a matter of minutes. But democratical regime was proved to be more dangerous than SDI. After Soviet Union break-up, Russian democrats ruined Uragan Project. Now, every tourist can visit ruins of Uragan underground control center (the size of a city).
 
I have some ideas for you:

1. The Nazis were a political group, not a civilization

2. The Soviets were also not a civilization, they were too a political group

3. NEVER EVER insult America again, I used to live there, and if you insist on deliberatley
insulting any group of people, I will report you to a mod, and we will see if you stop
then ;)

4. The Russians better suit the Russians because they are an important civilization.

Edit Note- I read your other thread, that is where #3 came from. Sorry if I made you feel
bad, but please stop yelling about America.
 
How many F-15's have been shot down by any Mig or Su variant? Answer NONE. Now how many Mig-29's were shot down by F-15's. Answer at least 4 during the Gulf war. How many M1A1's were destroyed by any T series tank? Answer NONE.

And the MkV panther tank was much better then the T34-85 or KV series and even better then the IS series. Of course it helps when then Russians had a great number more then the Germans. on average 3-1 with some battles up over 10-1.

And finally, I guess the Typhoon can't withstand a single torpedo when it happens to be inside your sub. You really nead a reality check.
 
Actually, the T34 was a very good tank, much better than any German tank.
SLoped armor, shells bounced offf it! Also about a 88mm cannon!

And MiG's are better than American jets of the same class. I wish I was the
CEO of Mikoyan!
 
The T-34 had three classes, the a, b and c. Then in late 1943 the 85MM cannon was added because it could no longer penetrate the armor of the MkV and MkVIa. It was not better then the Panther MkV tank. It was better then any version of the MkIII and equal to the Mk IV tank. And shells from a 50mm bounced off it. A 75 or 88 brewed them up. A famous german tactic was to rush their tanks then move back to a kill zone that had 88's on overwatch. This was why Mk III's defeated T-34's in almost all the early battles. And Kursk was the Germans attacking an entrenched and anti-armor position. It was not the mobile warfare that the earlier battles had.

As for the Mig's, please show me just one defeat of a F-15 by any Mig of any class in the world. You can't find it. It may be able to turn faster but if it's blown out of the sky before getting into range then what good is the faster turn ratio?

Finally, to quote "Top Gun", at the start of the Vietnam war the kill ratio was 3-1. By the end it was 12-1. Even the lower ratio was showing that US fighters were shooting down Mig's faster then Mig's shoot down US fighters.
 
T34's lost early battles because they lacked efficient tacticcs of the Panzers

Sure , Americans are better pilots, and shoot down more planes, but MiG's are much better built. Though
I am a fan of the Raptor, damn damn damn!
 
Moderator Action: This is not a political forum. See the Off-Topic if you wish to discuss such things.
I'm moving this to 'Customization'. If anything else political is posted, it's over.

Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

*removes mod suit...*

ALL CIVS ARE A COMBINATION OF THOSE WHO MERGED BEFORE THEM!! What a ridiculous argument that those three are special :rolleyes:
 
Tee hee. I enjoy a good troll...

I want a Green Party civ.

"Ralph Nader demands you surrender the city called 'Freedom of Information Act', or suffer the consequences!"

"The city called 'Five Mile-per-Hour Bumpers' has defected to the Republican nation! I always told you they were evil..."

57%, the Rah-rah American. Death to Terrorists! Buy a Ford! Buy two!
 
I don't really know about (and care even less :rolleyes:) the subject, but please enlighten me. When was the last time that modern Russian and American jets fought each other with properly trained and equal pilots, and more importantly, who cares? Nationalism is the cancer of humankind.
 
Interrupt, do you *really* live in the Soviet Union? Are you speaking to us through a time warp? Or maybe a parallel universe where the Soviet Military was so unparalleled that the Soviet Economy didn't drag it kicking and screaming into the abyss? Do you fear change? I know I do, because I always hate to break large bills. I feel for you. Did you get the same, glowy, morale-boosting feeling that I got by looking at the embalmed, waxy corpse of Lenin in a glass case? I understand you, brother. Even though you live in some 'celebrate the workers' propaganda poster fantasyland just beyond the rainbow.

(Apologies all around to anyone who read this. My fingers slipped.)

PekkaM: Cancer is the cancer of humankind. Don't get too confused.

57% is hilarious. I'm sorry this shouldn't be political. But that's hilarious.

SOMETHING ACTUALLY USEFUL
The air war in afghanistan shows the usefulness of American Heavy Bombers within the framework of their military strategy. Often, a flight of three orbiting heavy bombers would assault an entire armored column with 50+ bombs or with a bunch of well placed JDAMS, and destroy entire armored columns with no risk of return fire. It did the same work as an entire batallion of infantry might do in it's place. It's like having an artillery group that can hit virtually anything in the country within 20 minutes.
I wouldn't mind changing the F-15 to the B-52 and giving it incredible military power and range, just for the sake of game dynamics. It's true: US F-15's aren't the be all end all in strike or air superiority craft. The only thing that makes them better is that the USSR didn't have the money to build enough planes to counter them. The justification for adding a B-52 fleet is that the USSR never really relied on heavy air bombardment in any of its wars, while the US constantly had to project power over the ocean and therefore had to fly from isolated bases in the pacific and on european soil. Arguably, the US has the only strong bomber fleet in the world at this point.
 
OH MY GOD THEY ARE REALLY QUOTING "TOP GUN"!!! Are they really THAT stupid?
Don't you know that EVERYTHING, from beginning till the end, from imaginable "experimental MiG-28s", to supernatural agility of clumsy F-14s ("Tomcats"), to numbers they are using IS LIES!!! JUST CHECK IT!!! THAT IS SHAMELESS PROPAGANDA!!!

What really happened during Vietnam war?
Here's quotation from my post "USAF vs VVSSS" I posted in RA2 forums.

"Second stage of WW3 begins with war in Vietnam. Sky battles began in august, 1964. American capitalists thrown 330 aircrafts (F-105s, "Thunderchiefs", "Supersabers", "Voodoos", "Skyhawks", "Crusaders") against Vietnam people. At first Soviets used outdated MiG-17, which is slower than sonic. But it was MiG-17 which opened deathcount in this war, destroying 2 (two) F-105 (4 of April, 1965). Later, Americans lost 7 (SEVEN!!!) aircrafts, destroying ONLY 4 (FOUR!!!) MiG-17s. Now all saw what "advanced" American Air Force really worth! MiG-17s were a SCOURGE of American army, but real NIGHTMARE began when MiG-21s appeared on the battlefield. From May to December of 1966, MiG-21s destroyed 47 (FOURTY SEVEN!!!) American "advanced" aircrafts, losing ONLY 12 (TWELVE!!!) MiGs. That was a disaster for pathetic capitalist army. In 1967, Soviet pilots destroyed TWO TIMES more aircrafts, then American pilots. Another great victory of glorious Red Army! Americans thrown their new F-4s ("Phantoms") in combat. The strong side of F-4 is its speed, not maneurability (maneurability of F-4 was extremely bad), because originately F-4 was created to intercept super-fast Soviet bombers. Americans removed cannons from F-4, turning aircraft into bulky missile carrier and breaking connection between maneur and attack, in other words, turning pilot of F-4 into part of computer, into mindless machine (quite in Western style). Also, Americans continued to develop their favourite tactic ("air terror"), building superheavy fighters, made to approach, attack and then run away. They called it "tactical fighter concept". In other words, Americans made clumsy "Phantom" even more clumsy. Neither Nazis or Soviets build such coward, such backstabbing (and uneffecive) aircrafts. Americans laughed at Soviet aircrafts: "Ha-ha! Stalin's concept! Flying engine! Ha-ha!". Stupid capitalists: maneurable and fast MiG-21s blasted smile from faces of American pilots. MiG-21s easily destroyed American air squadrons (often turning radars off to prevent detection). Eventhough Americans had SIX TIME MORE AIRCRAFTS, they were LOSING war for skies. Americans tried to re-organise assaults, to block Vietnameese aerodromes, to use radiojammers. WITH NO RESULT! Then they gave their "Phantoms" cannons, tried to teach American "aces" (who already degraded into mindless machines for pushing right buttons) an art of close combat (ever seen laughable capitalist propaganda movie "Top Gun"?). WITH NO RESULT! In this war capitalists lost 3495 aircrafts (THREE THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED NINETY FIVE!!!), destroying ONLY 76 (SEVENTY SIX!!!) communist aircrafts! Yet another FLAWLESS VICTORY OF SOVIET UNION!!!"

1 to 3, eh? Vise versa: 4 to 1!
 
Oh, there's red everywhere.

Hey, the Chinese are going to make it to the moon before the Russians. And that's with a space program that didn't start 45 (FORTY FIVE!!!) years ago.

And we silly americans have always had enough syringes and toilet paper for our own citizens. That's the good old USSR for ya. We got no basic necessities, but we sure do have female olympic athletes that pee in urinals.
 
Originally posted by PekkaM
I don't really know about (and care even less :rolleyes:) the subject, but please enlighten me. When was the last time that modern Russian and American jets fought each other with properly trained and equal pilots, and more importantly, who cares? Nationalism is the cancer of humankind.

Been close to a decade now, but when East Germany merged with West Germany, they had a few squadrons of 'modern' Mig-29s. Not a REAL fight, mind, but in competitive flying, F-15's wiped the floor with them. They tended to outmatch F-16's however. (Note, this is from memory. Anyone want to try to dig up the actual results is more then free to go ahead)
 
Originally posted by interrupt_00h
OH MY GOD THEY ARE REALLY QUOTING "TOP GUN"!!! Are they really THAT stupid?
Don't you know that EVERYTHING, from beginning till the end, from imaginable "experimental MiG-28s", to supernatural agility of clumsy F-14s ("Tomcats"), to numbers they are using IS LIES!!! JUST CHECK IT!!! THAT IS SHAMELESS PROPAGANDA!!!
It's a friggin MOVIE. It's not meant to be a training film. It is not meant to be an accurate simulation of reality. It's their for ENTERTAINMENT purposes!
What really happened during Vietnam war?
Here's quotation from my post "USAF vs VVSSS" I posted in RA2 forums.
[/B]
And your source for all this is? Using YOURSELF as a reference just makes you look like a fool, you understand? Nevermind the fact you're turning this into a political/technological debate again.
 
Someone has watched one too many propaganda films.

F-86s reaped a rather grim harvest during the Korean war. I'll acknowledge that the MiGs had no problem downing WW2 era B-29s though.

Anyway, this debate is worthless and out of place. Go run to your precious Ploschad Krasnoya. I think Lenin is melting. At the very least, a vagrant is urinating upon the steps to his tomb. Or are you too busy knocking down the buildings of your ancestors to build ridiculous monstrosities like MGU and the so-called "Awe-inspiring" Palace of the Soviets? You should be thankful that later leaders did not share in Stalin's madness. He murdered millions for no reason other than paranoia for Pete's sake.


OK, no more politics for me. Sorry...
 
How many F-15's have been shot down by any Mig or Su variant? Answer NONE. Now how many Mig-29's were shot down by F-15's. Answer at least 4 during the Gulf war. How many M1A1's were destroyed by any T series tank? Answer NONE.

jju_57, mostly I'm on your side, but I have one question for you: how many M1A1's have been attacke by T-42's? :enlighten :rolleyes: :lol:
 
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