T2 External Consulate - Should we stir the pot 'over there'?

[Bertie]

The other half of the world has been too peaceful. The Byzantines are advancing quickly, and the Mayans and Persians are also beavering away at expansion and research. We need to get them more preoccupied with fighting each other rather than discovering new techs and growing. The best way to do this is get a war started, which will involve MAs. This is a good time to do this: we’ll be in despotism for at least another 10 turns, so we’ll be entering Republic close to the time our MAs will be expiring.

Who should the victim be? We have to consider the danger to our city of Over There. This is located directly next to the Hittites and Japan, and close to the Byzantines. A little farther away are the Mayans. I nominate the Byzantines for honor of being victim, although their proximity to Over There gives me some pause. We do run the danger of losing this city.

We need to get more embassies established (there were instructions to establish some last turnchat which somehow got overlooked in our martial excitement), so I propose we establish embassies with Persia, Maya, and Japan (total cost is 145). We will declare war on the Byzantines, then enter MAs with those 3 civs plus the Hittites (we already have an embassy with them).

We’ll need ammunition to enter MAs. Before we begin our MA negotiations, we can acquire Lit from either India or Spain (in another thread I discuss how we can renegotiate our peace deal with India for Lit & 6 gold; or we can buy Lit from Spain plus their 9 gold for Currency.) Assuming we first obtain Lit from either India or Spain, with Persia we’ll have Currency as an enticement to obtain an MA; with the Mayans Lit, Currency, and/or wines; with the Hittes and Japan COL, Lit, and Currency. Both of these civs also have some gold which I suspect we can get in an MA. I’d prefer not to trade luxuries at the moment because of the uncertainty of trade routes being cut.

Or is there another, better way to stir the pot?

I’ll wait to poll this until we’ve had a chance to develop a consensus through discussion.

 

[LeeT911]

The Mayans also lack iron I believe. That alone may entice them to war. Following the Dutch war we will have a whole lot of surplus iron. I'm thinking we should become the weapons broker of the world and keep everyone happily supplied with the latest military, excepting those which are potential targets of course (Portugal for example).

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

A little espionage, eh?

If what Lee has said is true in regards to the Mayans lacking iron, I agree that that alone could entice them to enter a war in our favor (or should I say favour?). With the Byzantines as a target, we'd have to make sure that we keep allied with any nation South of China (who we'd have to ally w/ to keep as our wall). It could stir things up. Fortify Over There a bit, let the AI duke it out and watch the colors change.

How simply manical of us... How very English indeed

SaaM

 

[zyxy]

Is the city "Over There" of strategic importance? If not, I would simply abandon what we cannot defend.

Starting a dogpile on one of the civs has the risk of destroying them and making our allies stronger. Is Persia still the only one with iron?
In that case, I would choose Persia as dogpile victim, because they may be able to hold out. Alternatively, declare on 2 civs. Perhaps Persia and Byzantines?

 

[vikingruler]

Is the city "Over There" of strategic importance? If not, I would simply abandon what we cannot defend.

I'm pretty sure it's is of strategic importance because it allows us to explore the north part of our continent a lot easier.

 

[MOTH]

A few questions:
1. What civs have declared on us in the past and will therefore give us war happiness when we are at war with them again? I know Japan and Persia have each declared on us. Are there any others?
2. What civs are the current Culture leaders? I would like to see these civs take a beating if possible. I think the Maya may be second in culture.

A few opinions:
1. We should definately establish Embassies while they are cheap due to the proximity of Over There.
2. War Happiness should be a big part of the equation. This can act as an additional luxury. When we made peace with Japan some of our cities rioted because the war happiness went away. Note: War Happiness applies to all governments, even those that don't suffer war weariness.

 

[Bertie]

A few questions:
1. What civs have declared on us in the past and will therefore give us war happiness when we are at war with them again? I know Japan and Persia have each declared on us. Are there any others?
2. What civs are the current Culture leaders? I would like to see these civs take a beating if possible. I think the Maya may be second in culture.

I'm pretty sure only Japan and Persia have declared on us. Tomorrow I'll look through some past saves and see if we were at war with anyone else at any point.

France is the cultural leader followed by the Mayans. I'm still thinking about what to do about France and would welcome any suggestions. The fallback with France, of course, is war, but we won't be ready for that for a bit.

@zyxy, 2 wars isn't a bad idea. Persia would be a logical 2nd candidate for a war, and it might be easier to get France involved in a MA against them than it would against the Byzantines.

 

[Bertie]

@MOTH: I checked several of the past saves, and it does appear that only Japan and Persia have declared on us thus far.

BTW, a poll is up HERE .