Tactics and strategy...follow the action

[Munro]

It might do Munro, but they might have copper don't forget, so it is a bigger gamble than with natives and it will delay us considerably if 2 players are at 0%.
So not sure...

Well, the chances of them having copper actually in the city tile are really low. If it's within their BFC, then the Holkan can choke it before they hook it up. It's only really going to be a problem if they have 2 or more cities which have copper in the BFC *and* which are also connected by rivers - so they can trade it around. Otherwise they're going to be stuck until they can get a bowman over there to move the holkan...

Also, ~40 gold for the upgrade is less than even 1 turn delay, and with the 7 bpt boost we'll get from being 1 turn behind every now and again (due to the known civs with this tech bonus) the gap will be even less than that by the time it actually matters...

But choking Egypt horses or copper (or just preventing them from hooking up food resources) right from the start would be really powerful...

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

 

[oyzar]

Choking both civs seems the way to go to me. 60 beakers is about equal to one turn of research, so it costs 2 turns of research on basically all techs total, later techs might be a problem, but it does mean you will get the 15% prereqmod more...

 

[Indiansmoke]

The problem is you will be 2 turns later to priesthood, hence will propably miss oracle.

However chocking can help you get oracle even if you are 2 turns late...so it is not clear...I am Ok with both options tbh

 

[Munro]

My vote is still for the choke. Although we are leaving it a bit late since Maya hasn't got any cash saved up yet... What is the cost? Is it exactly 60 ? We should do it this turn if we're going to do it.

My scout has found India in the south, next to Babylon. 14 tiles from my capital.



Warrior built and working on a second while I grow to size 2 (at which point, switch to worker then whip when able). I guess the warrior should stay in the city for defence, since it'll be another 11-12 turns until the next one is done?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

We do have marble to try for the Oracle. I am too for the double chock which could give us an edge.

Here are two new screenies of Babylon and its surroundings

Spoiler :

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

 

[Indiansmoke]

@ Munro...Cost of upgrading is 53 gold (at least for axe, never did spear). I think Maya has already 10 gold, so they will need another 4 turns...as i said I am Ok with upgrade, whatever Donovan decides basically.

@ Ras..I don't think we will have time to tech masonry and improve marble as well. Most likely choice for them to build Oracle is India, that with the fast workers can do 3 chops very quicly and get it ages before we can connect marble.

 

[CiverDan1]

Oracle is generally not built super early, unlike henge.

I am on track to upgrade the warrior just prior to revolting (gets the Dog out 1 turn faster). Note I decided to move the scout to the S of Rome. Didn't want to risk having a warrior waiting for me if I went on the woods (the dog will make it there easily anyways as I intend to approach from the SW). Btw, saw a Rome corn that he wasn't working. May be going unit heavy with Natives close/has a second food source like most of us.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

OK, after thinking about it, I switched back to 0% research. We still get BW in 2 turns.

Also, after running my Scout around in circles, I finally located the Egyptian border. That leaves us only to find the Aztecs.

I started on a Worker this turn, but would like to talk about the possibility of slaving out a Holkan (once we have BW) in addition to the upgrade. While the plan would severely stunt Mutal's growth, it may give me the chance to eliminate Egypt outright. However, if the Aztecs are directly to my south that would be a bad idea. My guess is that Tony will be somewhere between Rome and Babylon.

 

[Indiansmoke]

OK, after thinking about it, I switched back to 0% research. We still get BW in 2 turns.

Also, after running my Scout around in circles, I finally located the Egyptian border. That leaves us only to find the Aztecs.

I started on a Worker this turn, but would like to talk about the possibility of slaving out a Holkan (once we have BW) in addition to the upgrade. While the plan would severely stunt Mutal's growth, it may give me the chance to eliminate Egypt outright. However, if the Aztecs are directly to my south that would be a bad idea. My guess is that Tony will be somewhere between Rome and Babylon.

Slaving a holkan would severely hamper your development and with debatable results offensivelly.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Oracle is generally not built super early, unlike henge.

Oracle will be build a few turns after priesthood...unless everyone is chocked and in need of units.

 

[Indiansmoke]

From Civstats we can tell that they have just teched Bronze with only 3 of their players ending turn. That means that the other 2 will put beackers into archery this turn.

Which means that we will be at least 3 turns back from them in tech, for at least the 40 first turns of the game.

This calls for hard chocking, using the advantage we have in UU's...hopefully zulu will get copper and Persia horse.

 

[oyzar]

How nice that babylon is right next to mali and persia... They are there just to deal with all our other civs, but they are the worst against those... There is a forest hill right next to the city(though the odds of us occupying it before they get a worker there is rather slim...

Munro certainly you mean indi right next to rome? Also the positions of the civs are pretty good for us. Neither of the southern civ are particulary good against dogs and/or impi's. Egypts worst possible neighbour is maya and babylon doesn't like either mali nor persia.

 

[Indiansmoke]

@ Ras.....Babylon has a warrior out...Ras I suggest you move scout on that SW forest hill and then scout west of babylon as I will come to scout from the south.

Also the warrior can be outside your capital in 7 turns, you will have worker in 2, that leaves you 4 turns to chop and get the archer in the 5th...it is marginal, but it seems you are OK. I suggest you go chop one of the east forests next to the south pig as having a worker to the west forests can be interupted by the warrior.

@ Munro...you need to send that warrior to the enemy, scouting the fog on the way there, no point keeping it home.

@ Dan....don't forget to move warrior to edge of border to be ready for upgrade...and don't forget to get just the necessary cash and then switch to 100%.

It seems that this turn we will get bronze (fingers crossed for bronze @ zulu), if we get it before all end turn, then next teach is archery...I think we all agree on that.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

@ Ras.....Babylon has a warrior out...Ras I suggest you move scout on that SW forest hill and then scout west of babylon as I will come to scout from the south.

Yeah they must have worked two 1f2h tiles last turn... I agree on the moves

Also the warrior can be outside your capital in 7 turns, you will have worker in 2, that leaves you 4 turns to chop and get the archer in the 5th...it is marginal, but it seems you are OK. I suggest you go chop one of the east forests next to the south pig as having a worker to the west forests can be interupted by the warrior.

That's exactly my plan posted in page 5. I should have a warrior and an archer in 5 turns. I plan on chopping just east of Babylon then go to the pasture. Babylon is better chocking you with a warrior... I bet they will go for it, to try to prevent you from hooking up horses. We'll adjust the plan as the warrior move I guess

 

[Munro]

My scout now has a nice view of Delhi. 2h city tile. Size 1, no warrior yet that I can see.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

My scout is on the outskirts of the Egyptian city, which has Pigs and a lot of Forests. Next turn I plan to move to the hill with the Pigs on it via the Plains tile, to allow me another move if I happen to land next to a Warrior. Hopefully I can see the capital, though it looks like there's a hill just east of the Pigs which may obstruct my view.

Also, moved my Warrior SE out of Mutal, in full view of the Egyptian Scout. 21 gold so far. I am at 11 gpt, so should be able to upgrade in 3 turns if 53g is the target.

EDIT: Or do you think I should go straight for the Forested hill? It would put me right next to Thebes, but could be a suicide mission if a Warrior is camped there.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

I have seen all the northern capital yesterday with the cultural view... I thought I had posted it... will do it after work.

 

[CiverDan1]

I plan to go for the forested hill, even if there is a warrior in Rome's cap. Would just be way too risky for Rome to attack it vs Natives.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I plan to go for the forested hill, even if there is a warrior in Rome's cap. Would just be way too risky for Rome to attack it vs Natives.

You can go 1N on the plains tile where you will be able to see the capital...if warrior then no need to risk it...if no warrior go for the forest hill.

 

[Indiansmoke]

My scout is on the outskirts of the Egyptian city, which has Pigs and a lot of Forests. Next turn I plan to move to the hill with the Pigs on it via the Plains tile, to allow me another move if I happen to land next to a Warrior. Hopefully I can see the capital, though it looks like there's a hill just east of the Pigs which may obstruct my view.

Also, moved my Warrior SE out of Mutal, in full view of the Egyptian Scout. 21 gold so far. I am at 11 gpt, so should be able to upgrade in 3 turns if 53g is the target.

EDIT: Or do you think I should go straight for the Forested hill? It would put me right next to Thebes, but could be a suicide mission if a Warrior is camped there.

My feeling is egypt has gone worker first (as has India) since it has not grown yet and there was no early warrior build by anyone. So I think forest hill is safe enough.