TAM BTS v0.70 Released!

Same thing with the workers. Also, was playing a game and reached imperial age, so decided to check the world builder to see how everyone was doing. Was really impressed and amused to see a whole bunch of barbarian cities in the lonely west being connected by this HUGE roadwork :eek:.

EDIT: Lonely east
 
Deon,

It will be on the next version, which I hope to begin testing soon. The guys are working hard on it, I expect it will be a major upgrade from v.074 from the amount of time that is being spent on it.

Thanks for the input on this thread and the others

Happy TAMing
 
Actually there were three "quickies" v.070, v.073, v.074, but was necessary as we were having some serious crash issues. Now that we have the engine running without crashing, the team is busy hashing out all the possibilities for the true first major TAM BTS. These early ones were really just converting vanilla TAM to BTS to get the ball rolling. We released them to be downloaded to get the TAM community involved with the process.
 
The "Noble" setting is the cleanest difficulty setting. By that I mean, it will be the LEAST skewed for difficulty. The more difficult the setting above Noble, and things are agressivly skewed against the human player.
Right now I am testing BTS TAM v.074 and to keep my testing "timely" and to allow myself easy access to wonders, I am testing on Warlord. Its like taking candy from a baby.

The BTS game (CIV4) engine is more difficult to play then Vanilla I have found.

If you are looking for Natural/Even difficulty, Noble is best.

If you are looking to Extremely Challenge yourself then go above Noble. BUT dont expect ANY phase of the game to be the same. Everything gets tweaked to make it harder for you.

Thanks Gray.

The only problem with this is that the game just doesn't seem to 'work'. On Emperor, I can get into a competitive game early -- but I can't keep from running out of money. I suspect if I try noble I can roll the AI militarily.

I also think the maritime powers ha a large monetary advantage.

Best wishes,

Breunor
 
I also think the maritime powers ha a large monetary advantage.
As they should.

Plundering merchant vessels should gain you some gold if your coffers starts getting too bare.
 
S.P.Q.R.

Make sure you have the latest Civ4 and BTS patches installed. There are .dlls missing without them. Let me know if that took care of it for you.


I can not load the Mod. When I click on the world builder save to launch Tam, I get this error message.
 
Just a suggestion:

How about adding the ability to build merc units from different empires depending on the areas you control.
One way to do this is to have special resources that would look simular to a goody hut/village. Each area would have its unique "village". And each "village" would count as a required resource for the said units (this would also allow you to trade the ability to build merc units if you do not control the area). This could add some flavor units with some abilities your nation may not have. Using Kaels (from FFH fame) promotion that would give them a % chance to turn barbaric and or flip sides if they loose a battle. The advantage would be unique abilities, cheep and fast units especially in a pinch.

Some example could be:

Slinger Mercs from Crete Island
Visigoth Horsemen Mercs from the black sea area
Elephant Archers Mercs from the Persian area
Axemen Mercs from the Tribal Galic areas
Greecian Naval Mercs units from well greece

etc etc etc =')
 
About cultural victory : with just one civic giving +10% culture, it seems impossible to reach cultural victory.
Even on low difficulty (prince) with adapted civ (cultural agamemnon, isolated boudicca), building every wonder.. etc, at 100 turn left not even half the culture necessary is done.
Imo 100% boost was too strong, but +10% is very very low, preventing any cultural victory.
 
The "Noble" setting is the cleanest difficulty setting. By that I mean, it will be the LEAST skewed for difficulty. The more difficult the setting above Noble, and things are agressivly skewed against the human player.
Right now I am testing BTS TAM v.074 and to keep my testing "timely" and to allow myself easy access to wonders, I am testing on Warlord. Its like taking candy from a baby.

The BTS game (CIV4) engine is more difficult to play then Vanilla I have found.

If you are looking for Natural/Even difficulty, Noble is best.

If you are looking to Extremely Challenge yourself then go above Noble. BUT dont expect ANY phase of the game to be the same. Everything gets tweaked to make it harder for you.

I am not sure if this is right thread for my response...anyway

I have been playing consistently on Emperor and I have a question concerning the difficulty. Yes, the balance of the game is difficult at this level, however, the fact that there seem to be so many different units that can do collateral damage in the game makes playing on Emperor or even Monarch feel like Deity.

Of course it should only be natural that the game makes it hard to impossible for your economy to afford a 15-20 stacked army (above and beyond defensive units) of various units to combat the armies the computer raises. That being said, when the computer attacks you with its massive army of 20-40 or more collateral damage units it hardly matters who you have defending, whether it be a hero with 100-200 xp or 4 of them, they are simply destroyed outright and there is nothing that can be done. Then your cities fall as the collateral damage units move in and spam your spearmen (if you have them) to death (regardless of whether they are in fortresses built in the hills or with all city defense upgrades in a city).

I guess what I am asking is if Emperor should be this difficult? One of the things that attracted me to TAM was of course the time-period it is set in but also the Heros and the ability to promote other units with great generals and make them as powerful as the heros. In a more general sense, with the Emperor difficulty your offensive units MUST be heavily promoted and able to withstand a lot of punishment, otherwise they just simply die, whether on the walls of cities or defending in enemy lands.

But with the amount of units that cause collateral damage (that the computer builds in huge quantities) there appears to be no balance, unless the point of the game after copper working is to suck it up and try to afford 15-20 defensive units per city and hope to god they don't attack us. And retire your Heros to cower in some fortress far from the battles on the walls of your cities, or simply disband them because you can't afford to have idle units any longer. If I haven't even gotten the proper tech yet to build a hero it feels as if he is obsolete before hes even been built...

Units that cause collateral damage:
EARLY GAME: (Balanced for the most part)
Peltasts
Archer
Javinleer

early mid Game: (becomes unbalanced very quick with an AI's growing economy)
Armored Javinleer
Chariot Archer
Horse archer

mid game: (very unbalanced, as the compter AI's economy allows it to build 40-50 offensive units)
Bowmen
HEavy Horse Archer
Mounted Javlineer...

I think the problem lies with the Mounted units--I accept the fact that they receive so much movement and can eventually leave any city and attack an approaching army at will. But what makes everything unbalanced is when they can withdraw and survive the encounter to attack another day so easily, and most defensive units have no way to combat them effectively to boot. The only way to protect yourself in the hills and cities is with Armored spearmen really. But even a stack of 10 spearmen just simply die when 30 or more horse archers appear. Even if a spearman (upgraded from a special unit) manages to acquire 25% against skirmishers and mounted units, it seems to make little difference in my games. Maybe if there were more advanced promotions it could be done, but needless to say the effect of collateral damage is exponential once more than 10 such units appear at your walls.

Anyway, maybe its just my pride speaking here about being obliterated on Emperor :), whereas it felt as if I had a fighting chance in earlier versions.
 
Thanks a lot for your input. We have adjusted some units, but now we need to better balance the collateral damage.

Collateral damage should be significantly reduced for Archery units ... Javelineers should be the supreme collateral damage units, where Archery units give very minor CD. The withdrawal rates of units also needs to greatly improve: some of them have huge withdrawal rates that they should have never been given, so I'll look into that and do what I can to adjust it.
 
Glad to see you fellas are up and running again with this mod. I was a contributor back in the day.

Looking forward to seeing the new BTS version. This has always been one of my favorite mods.
 
Thanks a lot for your input. We have adjusted some units, but now we need to better balance the collateral damage.

Collateral damage should be significantly reduced for Archery units ... Javelineers should be the supreme collateral damage units, where Archery units give very minor CD. The withdrawal rates of units also needs to greatly improve: some of them have huge withdrawal rates that they should have never been given, so I'll look into that and do what I can to adjust it.

Thanks,thats good to hear! I just wanted to say that I never found a problem with the Javlineers really, or even the armored javlineers. But perhaps that is because once horses and the proper techs are available the computer AI no longer builds them and favors the horse units.

One other stylistic point: I noticed on Marathon games (1500 odd turns) that the game extends well past the year 2000. Would it be possible to reset the pace by which the years progress so that a Marathon game still ends around the same century as the other game speeds (6-7th century?)?
 
To add to Wayeward, I'm getting that even on Emperor, I'm pretty good at winning militarily early on but the later game is impossible because I can actually afford a bigger army early in the game than later. I don't think this is realistic. The reason this seems to happen is that the economy cannot expand enough to keep up with inflation, especially for a non-sea power.

I'm not usre if playing down a level is the answer. This may make my late game army easier to handle, but then it makes my early game army even stronger.

So, I'm waiting for the updates!

Best wishes,

Breunor
 
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