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Tamar of Georgia

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by marius_kaparius, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    north of Steilacoom, WA
    Sorry, I misunderstood but my argument stands: the only visible characteristic of the figures you mention is simple long-sleeved shirts or tunics, no armor, embroidery or applicae decoration on the upper sleeve of the garment. Going through my references: WRG's "Armies and Enemies of the Crusades" and "Armies and Enemies of the Middle Ages, Vol II the Near East", which are old but very good for pictorial compilation of What Is Known from contemporary sources (in this case, 12th to 14th century), similar garments were worn by most of the 'levied' foot troops and unarmored troops of Everybody in the Middle East, including Ayyubbids, Seljuks, Byzantines, and even Mongolian light cavalry (who, however, would be likely wearing fur-trimmed caps). The upper-arm band of decoration is, in fact, specifically shown/mentioned on garments typical of the Seljuks, both light cavalry and infantry swordjavelinmen, and Ayyubid Mameluks shown in the contemporary illustrations by Michael Paris in the 13th century.

    Which Does Not by any means exclude them as being typical of the Georgians, just not exclusive to them, and so not definitive evidence.

    On the other hand, so far the revealed Civs for R&F are:
    Netherlands - Western European Civ
    Korea - Far Eastern Civ
    Mongols - Far Eastern-Central Asian Civ
    Cree - Native North American Civ ('spilled' on a Chinese website)

    Which leaves the Near East, including the area through the Caucasus to Afghanistan/Persia, conspicuously unrepresented so far, with half the new Civs yet to come.

    I personally think we're still due one Native South American Civ, one Middle Eastern Civ, and one South African Civ, at least. Given that we already have Egypt, Sumeria, and Persia in the 'Middle East' which are all Ancient-Classical Era emphasis, a Medieval Era emphasis Byzantium or Georgia is certainly not a long shot...
     
    K4wa likes this.
  2. Aktchyually

    Aktchyually Chieftain

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    yes, you might be right, but it's very similar to khevsur traditional clothes_blue tunic with geometrical shapes and a small flat headwear
    for the comparisont watch from 2:57 till 3:05 (or search for khevsur traditional clothes)

    they also use buckler (small) shields and curved swords as shown in the trailer.
     
  3. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    north of Steilacoom, WA
    Thank you for the video link. I am fairly familiar with traditional Georgian costume, because my wife for some years made 'Renaissance Fair' costumes for people, including more serious re-enactors, and I helped her research correct decorative motifs for Saxon, Viking, Rus, Pict, Georgian, and medieval Spain. I also paint military miniatures, so have had to study and familiarize myself with ancient/classical/Dark Age costume and armor and decoration to get the details right (I'm painting 8th century mounted Welsh nobles now, when I'm not hacking away at 20th century Soviet archive translations or Civ VI speculations!).

    All of which is a long way of saying that, unfortunately, the 'typical' Khevsur tunic/blouse and decoration is also not unique: Moslems had to use geometric decoration, since depiction of 'God's Creations' was forbidden, and frequently decorated the same hem, neck and sleeve (or cuff) as in the video and trailer. Similar geometric decoration is also typical of Saxon, Norse Viking, and Rus, and even back to the Thracians living north of Classical Greece who are depicted wearing such on Greek decorated vases (Thracians, being 'exotic' seem to have been quite common on the Greek decorated ware).
    The 'targe' shield, or target, or (in Greek) Pelta, is also very, very typical of Mountain/rough terrain fighters, being more mobile and easier to handle in rough ground than larger shields that effectively immoblize most of your shield arm. Thracian light infantry circa 400 BCE were called 'Peltasts' after their shields, and the name was later used for all sorts of lighter-than-Hoplite infantry in Greece, even when they were using larger-than-target shields. The Targe and sword style of fighting by light troops became so well known that by the Renaissance it was a recognized form of 'formal' sword fighting - it appears in several 'sword instruction' books from the 15th - 16th centuries.

    So, again, nothing in the Civ VI 'teaser' video precludes the Georgians, but unfortunately, it also doesn't preclude Rus, Saxon, or Seljuk. What is encouraging, is that having England/Britain and Russia in the game already does, effectively, preclude Saxons or Rus, so, as I said, Georgia is still most definitely In The Running. (Also, while I think the Seljuks would be a fascinating addition to the game, I think any Medieval 'Turk' civ that gets into the game will be Ottomans, in the same way that none of the other many Greek city-states of the Classical Era have any name recognition compared to Athens and Sparta...)
     
    K4wa, liv and Aktchyually like this.

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