TC September 12 4:30 PM GMT Online

[1889]

I think you may be overestimating the value of an additional holy city. Islam is in no other cities that I can tell. We would have to expend many hammers on missionaries and transports (assuming other civs even have appropriate civics and open border agreements) before we can get any return on our shrine. In the mean time we will pay maintenance of about 9 gpt to keep one of the worst cities on the map.

Alternately the Prophet can be valuably exploited on a second golden age or even just as a super specialist providing two hammers and 5 gold per turn. I won't miss Opis one bit.

EDIT: Also post scientific method we can't build monasteries so we'd have to run organized religion to build missionaries.

 

[Cyc]

Great Profit.

I'm with Furiey. Religious extremism should end right here. Show some compassion for the rest of your citizens. Even if you have to exploit them to do it.

 

[Lord Civius]

Seems the citizenry is more split then I thought. It would be a big task to spread Islam along with our religion. We already have a holy shrine and we will have to compete between the two when the war is over and missionaries begin to get pumped out. I am for razing the city as it can be relocated in a better place.

 

[Cyc]

Well I hate to put a damper on things, but I believe you took the COA out of power prematurely. Without a Prime Faction you cn not play the save. I think you might want to put me back as King until after your debates and Election.

Core rules -

Save Playing:
The Prime Faction's constitution will determine who we play the save.
___________________________________________________

Without a PF's Constitution or a PF, you can not validate a Designated Player. Lord Civius, you no longer have the authorization to play the save, as the COA have been booted....

 

[Lord Civius]

Cyc we already went through this same sitiation when the APR took power. An interim DP (99% sure it was Joe) was appointed and played out until HR was adopted. Then Seidrik and the APR took over. I think it is a good idea however, since time is a factor, that the CoA make the decision(s) that cannot wait until after tomorrows TC.

Here is a link to the poll. It sets precedent for allowing a DP to run us until fascism. If not we will have to have an election among the representative factions and leave MAD out. Then they would of course rebel after one TC and we'll have to do this all over again.

Miving the Game along

 

[Cyc]

Cyc we already went through this same sitiation when the APR took power. An interim DP (99% sure it was Joe) was appointed and played out until HR was adopted. Then Seidrik and the APR took over. I think it is a good idea however, since time is a factor, that the CoA make the decision(s) that cannot wait until after tomorrows TC.

I have to agree with you, Lord Civius. Some of our new-comers may ask how the save was played against the Core rules. The citizens might want to start thinking about new legislation for the in-between times. In the future, some factions may not want to play nice.

 

[Cyc]

Here is a link to the poll. It sets precedent for allowing a DP to run us until fascism. If not we will have to have an election among the representative factions and leave MAD out. Then they would of course rebel after one TC and we'll have to do this all over again.

Yes, but that was when the entire game was down and there was no out-going PF. Totally different situation, don't you agree? In today's game, you have a PF that is out-going. I'm a lame duck King, so to speak. But King, none the less. At least until you can replace me.

 

[thecommonnate]

I'm not sure what is becoming of the DP now, but I have to side against keeping Opis. 1889 is right to say that Islam has no followers in the rest of the world. Its not a matter of religious extremism this time either, its a matter of peace-extremism. As I have said before, when playing the game, our focus should be gameplay, and keeping Opis would not be a wonderful thing to us.

Islam would be very hard to spread, and even with 5 Missionaries built, we would have still had the same amount of money (maybe more if the GP settles in Arkadia) a lot sooner.

 

[civplayah]

As usual, I'm siding with the humanitarian efforts and saying nay to razing Opis.

 

[Lord Civius]

I am going to honor Cycs' last decision as King and not raze the city of Opis. Once it is able to, the Muslim city will strictly be a missionary farm, however painstakingly slow that is, if the Federation gains power. Spreading hinduism first and secondly the Islamic faith.

 

[Provolution]

That was a bad decision, all I can say.

 

[1889]

I am going to honor Cycs' last decision as King and not raze the city of Opis. Once it is able to, the Muslim city will strictly be a missionary farm, however painstakingly slow that is, if the Federation gains power. Spreading hinduism first and secondly the Islamic faith.

For the record it is three in favor of keeping Opis, three in favor of razing.

Please remember there is no monastery in Opis and we can never build one. We can only build Islamic missionaries while using organized religion.

 

[Lord Civius]

That was a bad decision, all I can say.

I personally am for razing the city and agree with you. However the citizenry is split and how can I deny the great Cyc his last wish as King.

For the record it is three in favor of keeping Opis, three in favor of razing.

Please remember there is no monastery in Opis and we can never build one. We can only build Islamic missionaries while using organized religion.

Yes once the war is over we will return to Organized Religion.

 

[vra379971]

I support not being a zealot.

 

[Provolution]

Surely, this is getting a bit Disneyesque and a tad too much Hollywood and political correctness. If you want to play a sort of sentimental game, please go ahead and keep Opis, but keep me out of it.

 

[1889]

I personally am for razing the city and agree with you. However the citizenry is split and how can I deny the great Cyc his last wish as King.

Yes once the war is over we will return to Organized Religion.

The citizenry supported a revolution against the king, I'm not sure his vote should be given extra weight. Now four in favor, four against.

As for switching civics, that will not occur until the new PF is elected and so is still open for debate, correct?

 

[vra379971]

Surely, this is getting a bit Disneyesque and a tad too much Hollywood and political correctness. If you want to play a sort of sentimental game, please go ahead and keep Opis, but keep me out of it.

If you must know the real reason is rather simple. I never could say no to extra shrine income.

 

[1889]

If you must know the real reason is rather simple. I never could say no to extra shrine income.

...no matter how much it costs us.

 

[Provolution]

I think Lord Civius should respect the rebellion poll, not the Kings last word, if Lord Civius is respectful of the higher demogame. King Cyc is King Cyc no longer, effective of the Rebellion Poll. Lord Civius was nominated on the premise he would raze Opis, as one of his decisions. Civius, respect the rebellion poll, and raze Opis for us!!!

Since the rebellion poll dictates that we are to get a new system, I suggest that Opis is part of the Prime Faction election debate, and that we simply besiege the city of Opis until we got Fascism, then we decide what to do with Opis after the Prime Faction elections (and the final fate of Babylon).

 

[Lord Civius]

I see this is far to contraversal of a decision to be made by me. We only have one chance to either keep the city or raze it. By keeping it we can gift it to an enemy later and raze it after war is declared.

Provo, razing Opis was never even mentioned in the Rebellion Poll. I stated my intentions in the turn report:

1720 AD

We are now marching on Opis, another heathen Holy City. Plans are to burn it to the ground. It can make room for a greater city in the memory of our fallen Aretans.

I said plans are to burn it because I think it serves us better. Seems the citizenry are split on the issue and there was great discussion here. Both sides had good points and I'm going to keep the city, we still have the option to raze it later after a more defining poll. Possibly gifting it to Justinian for peace and razing it when we pay the Mayans back with an Armada of our own.