Team Farthings

[Grover22]

This thread has been created so that three friends (one Chicagoan and two erstwhile Chicagoans) can attempt a succession game. Others are welcome to lurk and kibitz, but I think we'd like to keep the game closed to joiners. Thanks for understanding.

I've rolled six starts with six different leaders, all emperor/continents/standard speed. Here are their screen shots:

Candidate A is Lizzie, Phi/Fin. Looks fine to me. Gold, two corn, a river, woods to chop, and some hills. We're near the tundra, though. Don't see any in our city radius, but there is some nearby.

Candidate B is Alex, Phi/Agg. The settler is on the grass/hill and the city would get cows, stone, and lots of floodplains.

Candidate C is Pacal, Exp/Fin. He gets two cows and two rivers.

Candidate D is Darius, Fin/Org. It's a fishfest, with wheat.

Candidate E is Stalin, Agg/Ind. Two corn, two rivers, sparse forest, but some hills.

Candidate F is Ragnar, Agg/Fin. Pigs, a river, nothing special.

I would rank the starts from best to worst as:
lizzie, darius, alex, stalin, and then ragnar/pacal in either order.

I think with lizzie, we could move the warrior NW to scout and probably move the settler NW to where the warrior was, onto the plains/hill to free up the nice river/grass he's on and to get the extra hammer from our city tile all game long.

Grover

 

[ShannonCT]

I like Elizabeth for a relatively peaceful game and Alex for a warmongering game. In either case, I'd want to settle on a plains hill.

 

[Grover22]

I'm for taking the easiest path to victory open to us, if any is. I don't know that diplo/culture is very easy, but I'd be willing to give it a try.

For culture, I guess Shannon means that we could run artists under Philo, rack up great artists, and culture up three cities. I guess we'd also be wonder-heavy and pretty vulnerable.

I have no idea how diplo would work. The AI have never once voted me head of anything.

All in all, I like Lizzie's start the best. The corn and (eventual) river/grass will be nice for running specialists. Plus there are trees to chop, hills to mine, and some gold. I think I'd vote to play that start and worry about the victory conditions later.

 

[ShannonCT]

I'm for taking the easiest path to victory open to us, if any is. I don't know that diplo/culture is very easy, but I'd be willing to give it a try.

For culture, I guess Shannon means that we could run artists under Philo, rack up great artists, and culture up three cities. I guess we'd also be wonder-heavy and pretty vulnerable.

Elizabeth is arguably the best leader for culture victory, because the extra commerce can be converted to culture with the culture slider, and because Philo gives extra artists. But culture games can be very boring in the second half of the game, where you aren't doing much but pressing enter.

I have no idea how diplo would work. The AI have never once voted me head of anything.

All in all, I like Lizzie's start the best. The corn and (eventual) river/grass will be nice for running specialists. Plus there are trees to chop, hills to mine, and some gold. I think I'd vote to play that start and worry about the victory conditions later.

Some advice on getting AI to vote for you:

1) Figure out who the most populous AI is likely to be and befriend other AI who are of a different religion. The most populous AI will be your opponent in the Diplo victory vote and they will always vote for themselves.

2) Vassals will always vote for you. Conquer weak AI that capitulate easily.

3) Pick 2-3 AI to cultivate as friends and don't do things to take negative hits with them (refusing demands, trading with their worst enemy, etc.). There are lots of ways to get positive diplo points.


If we are playing Elizabeth, I'd vote for settling 1NW of the settler's current location, and researching Agriculture and BW to start.

 

[jmh]

If we are playing Elizabeth, I'd vote for settling 1NW of the settler's current location, and researching Agriculture and BW to start.

Sounds good to me. I think I prefer Lizzies start over the others - no matter which victory conditions we end up chasing.

 

[Grover22]

So, it sounds like we're all ok with Lizzie? Let's go with that, then. I'm sure I'll find a way to keep the late game interesting for you, Shannon.

I'm fine with the tech path Shannon suggested: agri > bw.

I take the first set, only 2 turns. London is founded on the plains hill. We also have pigs in our bfc. It looks like there is water just south of the tundra. Stone is not too far away. Yeah pyramids! What a good start! (Is it too easy now?) Here's a picture:

Working a grass/forest (2f/1h) tile, we can churn out a worker in 12 turns or a warrior in 5 with growth in 11 turns. Our cultural radius will expand in 5 turns, at which point we will have the option of working pigs or corn for 3f/0h instead of the grass/forest.

Research on agri will finish in 10 turns at our current tech rate.

I end my set after two turns so that we can discuss building a warrior vs building a worker. I'd vote for warrior(s) until we're at least size 2 and maybe size 3. I don't want to build an early worker who has nothing to do while we're waiting for BW to come in, which is another 16 turns after agri at our current tech rate.

Also, with pigs present, do we insert AH before BW in our tech path?
agri > AH > BW now?

Alright. The save file is attached. Shannon or Jon can take the next turn, whoever can get to it first.
No hammers have been invested into the warrior yet, nor beakers into agri, so changing those is free if you do so before hitting enter.

Grover

 

[Liquidated]

wow holy cow... er pig... and gold... and corn.. and more corn!

Grassland pigs NOT on a hill, the holy grail of Bacon based growth and two grass corn, one of which is irrigated and the other one instantly so after civil. Ok, so you have food in spades with just three land tiles. Wow.

So what hammers other than the 11 forests.

9 Plains hills total 7 of which are mine-able hills with the 8th being gold (as a financial civ starting with mining) and the 9th underneath London for the two hammer start

As if that wasn;t enough,3 grass hills. 2x riversides which are Forested ones you prolly can keep un chopped the entire game as they will pick up commerce as a lumber mill.

10 mine/mill-able hills with the food to support them all.

Ok then what are the mundane tiles? 4 river side grassland tiles 2 of which can support +1 commerce lumber mills, one is a chopper on the diagonal and the last is bare.

ok so what are the total trash tiles in the BFC?

One bare plains and a frosty plains forest.... both adjacent to the corn for trivial civil irrigation.

Ok so then yeah one of the best city starts I've seen ever and what? oh there's the stone just 3ish culture pops away.... plenty of time to let London pick it up before needing to push out the mids...

This is exactly the type of start those hall of fame people reroll constantly to find heheh.. what a gem of a start.

Cheers!
-Liq

 

[ShannonCT]

That is a very nice start. There'll be no complaining about a hammer-poor capital this time Jim.

Worker first is the winning play here. Waiting til you're size 2 to build a worker only adds 1 more hammer/food per turn. We're netting 5 food/hammers per turn now, so getting 6 per turn only increases worker build speed by 20%. The only time I don't build a worker first is if A) I tech BW first so I can whip the worker or B) I'm confident I can steal a worker and get him back quickly (usually with no-barbs setting).

We start with Mining, so after our worker builds 2 corn farms, he can build the gold mine, and three other mines, until he has something more important to do. (Liquidated - both of those corns look unirrigated to me.)

I will play through agriculture now, and then we can decide whether Animal Husbandry might make sense.

 

[ShannonCT]

Turns 2 - 11

Turn 2) Set London to worker

Turn 4) Pop 37 gold from a hut

Turn 6) London's borders expand, revealing some flood plains to the NE

Turn 7) We meet Darius's scout, and can see the edge of his borders to our north.

Turn 11) Agriculture is done, and we need to decide on the next tech.

Also notice that we have a worker steal opportunity coming up soon. Darius starts with Agriculture, so we should see a worker on the wheat soon. Do we keep our warrior exploring or camp out for the worker steal?

 

[ShannonCT]

Considering all of the production possibilities we have without chopping, I think I'm inclined to go for Animal Husbandry next, followed either by Wheel or BW. Our happiness cap is 5 (after hooking the gold, it will be 6). Working 2 corn, pig, gold mine, and a regular mine will give us 17 net food/hammers (19 at Size 6). We'll be able to build settlers and workers faster than we know what to do with them.

The best looking 2nd city site right now is to the NE with the pigs and flood plains, yet another reason to get Animal Husbandry.

 

[Grover22]

Normally, I'd be in favor of gambling and stealing the worker, but Darius gets immortals, and our only answer to them will be spears, I think, requiring hunting and BW and some luck with copper. With all the goodies in our bfc already, I think we shouldn't be optimistic about getting copper very close.

So I think the worker-stealing decision depends on whether Darius has horses or not, and we can't see horses until AH comes in. Seeing a pasture being built in the middle of nowhere should be a give-away, though.

Regarding AH vs BW, I'd vote for AH (to reveal Darius' horses and for the pigs) unless it means our worker would be idle. I think the worker has plenty to keep him busy, though, with two corn tiles to farm, plus a gold tile and 2 other bare hills to mine.

After the worker finishes, we churn out warriors for scouting and potential worker-stealing? How many is too many?

 

[ShannonCT]

Normally, I'd be in favor of gambling and stealing the worker, but Darius gets immortals, and our only answer to them will be spears, I think, requiring hunting and BW and some luck with copper. With all the goodies in our bfc already, I think we shouldn't be optimistic about getting copper very close.

The other answer to immortals is to never let Darius hook up horses. It's not that hard. The AI is very cautious about sending workers to danger zones. Fortify a warrior on a forested hill and the AI worker wont get near him. And if there are horses near us, stealing a worker from Darius means we can get a settler out before him.

After the worker finishes, we churn out warriors for scouting and potential worker-stealing? How many is too many?

I would build warriors until we get to at least Size 4, since we have 4 premium tiles, at which point I would consider building a settler (or maybe at Size 5 instead). If we see our gold go to -1 per turn, we might want to stop building warriors.

 

[jmh]

Looks like a great start.

I'll be able to put in some turns later tonight unless one of you wants to go ahead and do the next round.

For tech, I agree AH next and then Wheel.
So what to build after the worker? I'm guessing we'll want one or two warriors first, but then what? Wait to see if Darius has horses before churning more out?

 

[ShannonCT]

Looks like a great start.

I'll be able to put in some turns later tonight unless one of you wants to go ahead and do the next round.

For tech, I agree AH next and then Wheel.
So what to build after the worker? I'm guessing we'll want one or two warriors first, but then what? Wait to see if Darius has horses before churning more out?

Between the first worker and the first settler, there's really nothing else worth building but warriors. We should get to size 4 or 5 very quickly with so much food, so you probably won't be able to build more than 2 warriors before we want a settler.

 

[Grover22]

So it sounds like you're leaning towards stealing the worker, Shannon? That'll make Jon's turnset a bit more fun for him.

I'm ok with that plan if you think we can get away with it. Encouraging Darius to build archers against us sounds like a fine idea, as long as he keeps them on defense.

What will declaring war do to our chances of Diplo victory, I wonder?

 

[ShannonCT]

So it sounds like you're leaning towards stealing the worker, Shannon? That'll make Jon's turnset a bit more fun for him.

I'm ok with that plan if you think we can get away with it. Encouraging Darius to build archers against us sounds like a fine idea, as long as he keeps them on defense.

What will declaring war do to our chances of Diplo victory, I wonder?

I think Darius needs to die. He's too close to us and we need some Lebensraum. The only way it could hurt us on the Diplo front is if he gets Pleased with some other AI and that other AI gives us -1 for declaring war on a friend.

 

[jmh]

Ok, its 3560 BC, We're researching Animal Husbandry (13), building a Worker (2) in London, to be followed by probably 2 warriors.

We've found Darius, and he has to die.

Press enter

3520 BC
Our warrior is going to camp out waiting for a worker to snatch. Warrior next turn.

3480 BC
London builds worker – who moves to farm the corn
Warrior in 8 turns
London grows in 8 turns
Darius archer spotted

3440 BC
Wolf attacks our warrior and dies
Buddhism founded in a distant land
our worker is ready to get digging

3400 BC
9 turns to animal husbandry
after patrolling the border Darius archer disappeared in the fog

3360 BC
all quiet

3320 BC
all quiet

3280 BC
all quiet

3240 BC
worker finished the farm, moves onto the next farm.
Warrior in london in 2 turns, growth to size 2 in one turn

3200 BC
London grows, will reach size 3 in 4 turns, warrior next turn

3160 BC
Warrior finished, moving north to support our other warrior on Darius' border – 5 moves away
Oooh. Darius has finished out worker and moved it to the border
London grows in to size 3 in 3 turns, warrior finishes in 7, worker still building a farm

Declare war on Darius and snaffle his worker.
Darius is now a bit upset.

Hit enter...

3120 BC

London is set to grow in 2 turns and will build its next warrior in 6.
Next farm on the corn will be online in 2 turns.
Animal husbandry in 2 turns
We're at war with Darius.
Warrior escorting worker back towards London – don't want him to get eaten by a wolf or a bear!
Will try for cease-fire with Darius as soon as he'll talk to us.

3080 BC

Hinduism founded in a distant land.
Initial warrior goes back to scout out Darius territory.
“Warrior 1” heading towards Darius border for backup
New worker heading back to London to work on some gold

3040 BC

Animal husbandry. What next.... BW(16)? The Wheel (9)?
Warrior meets Darius archer... Darius still not talking to us – so run and hide in woods on a hill.

Oooh. Horses SW of london and our worker has just finished his corn farm. Lets build a pasture.

London grows to size 4 in 4 turns and builds its next warrior in 2.

Going to go for BW. Wheel would mean we happy cap at 6 with the gold, but BW might get us copper ready for deciding where to place our second city. Also, will give our workers some chopping to do once they run out of improvements.

3000 BC

Archer ran away from warrior hiding in the hilly woods (woody hills?)
Advance warrior and reveal persepolis

Darius will now talk to us – lets try for a ceasefire – then maybe he'll build us another worker.

Peace again!

so its 3000BC, we have AH and are working towards BW, though its not too late to switch to The Wheel if you think that would be better. We've snaffled a worker from Darius and made peace again. And London got horses.

 

[Grover22]

Five resource tiles for London, and counting!

I'll play a set later tonight.

If I get a chance to grab another worker, we'll be at war again.

I may pause my turn or end early if we need a discussion about where to build city 2.

 

[ShannonCT]

Since we have horses staring us in the face, it might be a good idea to go for Wheel before BW. The next Persian worker might be guarded by an archer, and the first settler will certainly be. A couple chariots would give us a lot of options. We don't necessarily need copper to take down Darius.

For development, I think we should get to Size 5 ASAP and then start on a settler.

 

[Grover22]

Too late...we got bw (but no copper nearby). Wheel is in 1 turn, though. I'll post my report shortly--text first and pics to follow.