Team Wacken monarch level practice game.

[Xevious]

I'm in for both games. I would prefer to settle on the hill also. It looks like there might be grass south of the hill. I've played a few starter games (up to about 1000AD), and the most recent one I tried this chop settler first strategy and I must say it really works.

 

[dmanakho]

@Xevious: Please look again, please read my previous post and tell me if i miss something and please look at city map on picture and lots of tiles will be lost because of tundra at the south pole and there is very little food if you settle on the hill.
you get one grassland and lose at least 2.

Again, i am only saying what i see on screen shot. I can't be certain what's hidden under black fog. From what i see hill is a bad location

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Wow, looks good dman.
I am now too tired and stoned to really read everything and go into it, so that i will do tomorrow. The only things i can say from skimming over your posts is that you are probably right about not settling on the hill and that i do not think you are right about the risk for worker first. In none of the games i have tried (also just the starts, most on monarch, few on emperor) i have met anything remotely risky for worker first. Anyway, tomorrow i will read your post with the attention it deserves and think about everything properly.

PS, will you make that second game we are gonna play ?

 

[grahamiam]

I agree with dman, move the warrior 1st, then settler NW and settle. nice analysis dman

 

[dmanakho]

Yet another point against the hill. If we settle at location I suggested we can settle one turn earlier since moving on top of the hill will make us to lose a turn. Hence, worker will actually be built not three but only two turns earlier compared with settling on plains in 4000BC.

I also dare us to play gambit and chop a second settler instead of the warrior after we complete our worker. we just need to make sure we don't lose our original warrior to wild animals and here him nearby to ecscort settler when if ready. I just hate to waste forest on warrior

It might actually work if We are careful

EDIT: Also when scouting always fortify at the end of turn. in Civ4 you can fortify even if your unit is out of moves. That improves defence bonus against wild animals. Some of them (lions, panthers) can move 2 tiles and run from under the fog when you least expect it. Fortification at the end of turn saved my scouts many times and at least decreases number of turns they need to heal

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Yep, have you guys read that thread where battle is explained and the win chances for different strength comparisons ? Also includes first strike effects. Very intresting.

 

[angeleyes]

good analysis dman but one simple thing i don't agree : when you want to
build warrior-settler, chopping the warrior helps you to get your settler much
earlier and no hammer is lost because redundant hammers will go to build of
settler.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

good analysis dman but one simple thing i don't agree : when you want to
build warrior-settler, chopping the warrior helps you to get your settler much
earlier and no hammer is lost because redundant hammers will go to build of
settler.

Indeed, no shields are lost.
The only thing is as i posted, the difference between spending the forest for production or food.

 

[Offa]

Yep, have you guys read that thread where battle is explained and the win chances for different strength comparisons ? Also includes first strike effects. Very intresting.

If you mean Arathorn's post, then yes I have read it.
The combat seems unduly complex, perhaps it is more in line with RTS games (of which I have no real knowledge). The interface in general is similar to RTS games, and I presume the makers are hoping to appeal to AOE and rome:total war players etc.

I suspect that once we get used to it, combat can be manipulated to great effect, as outcomes are much more predictable than in Civ3. Combat was also very predictable in civ2. At present it seems people are tending to suicide a couple of catapults to soften up targets for other troops. It would be nice not to have to rely on cats though.

 

[dmanakho]

Indeed, no shields are lost.
The only thing is as i posted, the difference between spending the forest for production or food.

I guess i wasn't clear on that one . First of all lets call them hammers...
Hammers gentlemen... Shields are part of Civ3 world . I need to get used to that myself (offtopic: How are beakers called in Civ4??)
Yeah, shields (khm.... sorry hammers) are moved to the next build, but there are some issues that
are spoken about in the following article

My point however was that i thought it was waste of forest hammers if we use them for building a warrior. In my book forest should only be chopped for settlers and workers. (and stonehedge or pyramids in certain situations).
Hence, i called it waste of hammers, i would much rather take a risk and chop a settler immediately after the worker.

As for combat. It is indeed more complex than Civ3. More predictable? perhaps. But i have had quite few cases when my unit with much better chances to win would lose a battle. So there is still an element of surprise.
I am not trying to make complex calculations when i play game as of today.
I just use Alt button to figure out the possible outcome.

For the moment i am trying to learn more about economy. CIv4 makes much greater emphasis on economy and it is even more complex than combat.
I have yet to calculate optimal number of food/shields/gold for the town based on surrounding tiles. Cottages are something i have to learn how to handle well, Civ3 tought me how to get production and food and now i need to learn how to get gold, otherwise your tech progress will be crippled later in the game.
Also, it is important to know when is the best time to expand and plop new city.
I recommend everyone to read this article.
It shows how much you pay for cities upkeep. At first, it was very hard for me to understand that there isn't such thing as corruption in Civ4. However you pay extra for the city maintenance if it is located farther away from capital.
Well... quite few things to learn, and i hope we are going to have lots of fun playing Civ4.
All i can say, i like it more and more every day.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

That last article gave me hope for civ4

If i understand it correctly, they are saying that we can build pretty much unlimited cities without problems. As long as every city produces 6 gold, or 3 with a courthouse, it will be good

By the way, i am stubborn and i will keep calling them shields and beakers.

 

[grahamiam]

it seems everyone in here. i say we light this candle and start the game! first one who can play, grab it. we then can sort the order by timezones after him.

 

[dmanakho]

I am out. won't have time until late saturday afternoon.

 

[grahamiam]

Yep, have you guys read that thread where battle is explained and the win chances for different strength comparisons ? Also includes first strike effects. Very intresting.

go thru the LoRT17 - Dueling Diety SG thread. Lots of talk and pics on warfare, including a demonstration on the usefulness of catapults by Vol.

 

[dmanakho]

By the way, i am stubborn ...

That I've noticed

 

[Offa]

Well it certainly isn't me first. I have to play sgotm, which will have to wait until tommorrow as it is!

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I would say it is for dman, since he pretty much made up the start sequence.

If we want to wait of course. IMO, we are not in a hurry with so many games we are playing simultaniously.

 

[dmanakho]

You guys go ahead and start.
I am sure you, Xevious or Gman can roll out a great start of your own.

Offa, haven't heard from you on Catherine's thread. We are playing 50 turn individual startups due on Sunday night.

 

[angeleyes]

please let me come back on that detail. Now i think cutting a forest for a
warrior isn't a waste of hammers, it's a waste of food ! Because if you cut
a forest for a settler (or worker), less food will be spend on the build of the
settler, so the city will began to grow again sooner.

Asperge

 

[dmanakho]

Because if you cut
a forest for a settler (or worker), less food will be spend on the build of the
settler, so the city will began to grow again sooner.
Asperge

Precisely, That is why i always prefer shortening times required to buld settlers and workers by chopping wood and spare forest just for those actions only. As in a real life forest is way to precious to waste.

So, is anyone going to start this game at all???