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Tech Tree Revisions

Discussion in 'Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn' started by Vokarya, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    You can show the slider by making gold a flexible commerce, but I don't really see the point. As long as the percentages have to add to 100%, then there's really only 3 decisions you can make and one category becomes whatever is left over. That's what the gold category winds up being. If we had a "waste" category, then we'd need an extra slider for taxes, but I wouldn't want to introduce a whole extra set of mechanics for what seems to me isn't a decision to make.
     
  2. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Taxes could however be something that you expand upon later. It would certainly be a good way to expand the realistic corporations mechanics if nothing else.
     
  3. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    I started looking at the random events to see which ones cost gold. So far, I've got three rough categories:
    • Events that cost gold, but their trigger conditions are far enough into the game that you're past the early phase where the sliders are locked. An example would be the Careless Apprentice event that forces you to pay gold or lose a Forge. The Forge requires Metal Casting, which is Classical Era. I wouldn't expect the gold-lock to remain past Writing at the very latest. So we wouldn't have to modify anything here.
    • Events that are "pay gold to get something good" or "nothing happens", like the Joyous Wedding event; you can pay 15 gold for +1 relations or 60 gold for +3 relations with the target.
    • Events that are "pay gold" or "something bad happens", like the Washed Out event that causes you to pay 20 gold or lose a route.
    For these last two categories, there is a very easy variable to manipulate: <iMinTreasury>. This sets a minimum treasury before the event will fire.

    For a good event, <iMinTreasury> should be equal to the gold spent to get the lowest good option; that way, the event will never fire for no effect. So Joyous Wedding would require at least 15 gold in your treasury to go off. The actual trigger condition is sharing a border with another civilization with the same State Religion.

    For a bad event, <iMinTreasury> should be very low, maybe 1 or 5. That way, if you are still in the "no treasury" phase, the event won't even fire. But if you have a treasury and then spend it down, then you are vulnerable.
     
  4. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Chieftain

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    How about setting it it to the double? Like 30 for Joyous wedding. So even if a player has a -1:gold:/turn income and accidentally clicking on the pay 15:gold: he will still have some time left to fix his situation.
     
  5. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    That's plausible. I don't want to stop these events from firing too often. Under current conditions, these events can go off even if you don't have any gold, and I'd like it to at least be a choice for the player.
     
  6. aggri1

    aggri1 Chieftain

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    The 'waste' category could be Public Works points which are used to build infrastructure like roads, in the style of Civ:Call to Power... Hehe, I know, I'm dreaming right. :)
     
  7. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    I went through the events and found 24 that can fire in the early era and cost you gold. I'll work up the list of which ones need modifications to avoid problems with the early treasury-less game situation.
     
  8. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    I want to get this posted so I can get it off my to-do list. I have a complete list of events that could go off before you reach the tech that allows altering the gold/science rate. I'd like to try it with the ability to alter that rate set at Trade tech. I know Trade tech is stuffed at the moment, but I think it's a good one to try.

    These events have a minimum treasury of 1 to go off. These are bad events -- pay money or something bad happens.
    • Forest Fire
    • Washed Out
    • Spoiled Grain
    • Blizzard
    • Ancient Mercenaries
    • Sandstorm
    • Dissident Priest
    • Farm Bandits
    • Slave Revolt
    • Careless Apprentice
    These events cost money, but there is at least one good choice that doesn't cost money. So if these events turn up before you have a treasury, you can get a lesser bonus but not the maximum possible.
    • Famine (this is the event that allows you to lose food and possibly send gold to another player in exchange for a relations boost)
    • Papyrus
    • Great Beast
    • Heresy
    • Miracle
    • Hi Yo Silver
    • Antelope
    • Looters
    • Inspired Mission
    These events are good if you pay money, but nothing happens if you don't. Their minimum treasury is equal to twice the amount of gold needed for the lowest good effect.
    • Chariotry Founded
    • Man Named Jed
    • Joyous Wedding
    • Wedding Feud
    Is there anything else that you might want to spend gold on in the very early game, pre-Classical Era? This is before gold trading, gold rushing, and improvements that cost gold are available.
     
  9. Horseshoe_Hermi

    Horseshoe_Hermi 20% accurate as usual, Morty

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    :think:

    Seriously though could you confirm what the new logic is on the tree? I really want to show off what becomes possible. Aristocracy used to clog up the space above Monarchy, but now that one single space lets you put Glassblowing in there, which means Metal Casting can squeak by with just one lane into late classical, and .... it's just awesome.
     
  10. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    All I have currently done is remove Aristocracy. I haven't moved anything else.
     
  11. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    I noticed the icon for "adjust culture" seems really weird. It looks more like a currency icon than anything else. Would it be too much of a problem to use the same icon for the "Build X" process and the "Can adjust X" ability? So both "Can Adjust Culture" at Drama and "Build Culture" at Music get the same blue note icon. That's one option. Another might be a different-colored button (like a red note).
     
  12. Horseshoe_Hermi

    Horseshoe_Hermi 20% accurate as usual, Morty

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    This is still the best one I can recommend.
     
  13. Horseshoe_Hermi

    Horseshoe_Hermi 20% accurate as usual, Morty

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    I have worked with a model for long enough to be confident in the unavoidable tradeoff relationships of the tech tree appearance.

    The above is still the best way to get the most OR lines into the picture. Alternately, Sailing can be drawn onto Trade, but with less freedom for Agriculture (see attachment). HBR -> Warfare is in a tradeoff with any option for Trade. I can now show my work. Pottery limits Agri/Hunting/Ritualism as well as force Sailing on Woodworking, and at that point Calendar is in the way.

    Trade can't be maximized, but we can at least show two of the ways onto it and thus Writing/Monarchy. The graph in post #832 exchanges the HBR line for one on Trade and also Stargazing-Priesthood. It is the most lines. And Aesthetics can move onto Athletics.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    I have an idea waiting in the wings that might need a bigger rework of the Ancient Era. I'm holding it back until I get done with the things I have currently proposed.
     
  15. Horseshoe_Hermi

    Horseshoe_Hermi 20% accurate as usual, Morty

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    ... heh.

    Well, when it comes to light, I'll be equally intrigued by the implicate puzzle.
     

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