Tech Tree
- Thread starter Sengir
- Start date
xmen510
Emperor
I noticed that you still have Council of Wises in there. I thought you were taking that out. I put it back in my list though for you. Also, you still have Armored Cavalry - I believe we renamed it Mastery Of Mounted Warfare, I could be wrong though. You also have Signal Fires still listed as a requirement for the FOURTH AGE OF THE SUN (though it is corrected in the Tree itself).
Text List updated: Page 4, Post #63.
Text List updated: Page 4, Post #63.
Berenthor
King
I thought that Council of Wises would be renamed to something like councels or pacts or something and that that would be the tech to enable the white council or the shadow council (but I might remember it wrong, don't want to read to far back 
)
)Crap, I thought I had it all fixed. No Council of the wises should be out or renamed and Armored Cavalry should indeed be Mastery of Mounted Warfare. Signal Fires should indeed be fixed as well. Will put up a new version tomorrow morning for correctness sake.
xmen510
Emperor
I f you could explain what Council of Wises actually is to represent, then perhaps we could come up with another name for it so you can keep it in.
I'm not sure what Council of Wises is meant to represent, as I simply picked it from Elda Kings list. I think however it is meant to represent the coming of the wizards to Middle Earth. I'm not even sure that this should be implemented by a tech, (actually I think it shouldn't but maybe the wonder/heroes should be enabled by the tech.).
If it represents the wizards coming to Middle Earth, what was the reason they were sent? I can't remember it from the top of my head and haven't got my books with me atm. That might be a source for a better name.
If it represents the wizards coming to Middle Earth, what was the reason they were sent? I can't remember it from the top of my head and haven't got my books with me atm. That might be a source for a better name.
xmen510
Emperor
They were sent to help advise and guide the people of Middle-Earth against Sauron.
If that is what it is, perhaps it could be renamed to:
Guidance Of The Istari
That is what they were called, the 5 that came:
1 White: Head of the Order - Saruman - Later Falls.
1 Grey: Gandalf (Mithrandir) - Later becomes White.
1 Brown: Radagast - Loses his Path, but doesn not become corrupt by the shadow.
2 Blue: They went East and South and were never heard from again as far as I have found out.
I can try and find out their real names if people are interested.
If that is what it is, perhaps it could be renamed to:
Guidance Of The Istari
That is what they were called, the 5 that came:
1 White: Head of the Order - Saruman - Later Falls.
1 Grey: Gandalf (Mithrandir) - Later becomes White.
1 Brown: Radagast - Loses his Path, but doesn not become corrupt by the shadow.
2 Blue: They went East and South and were never heard from again as far as I have found out.
I can try and find out their real names if people are interested.
Yeah, Istari was the name I was looking for, but Guidance of the Istari isn't something one can tech right? It's more something one can get (from events? wonder/project?). I'm still kinda struggling with technames as you can see. I like Guidance of the Istari much better then Council of Wises, but still isn't as abstract as I would like to see. It's probably just me though...
Unrelated note, I always liked Olorin best of the names Gandalf had.
Unrelated note, I always liked Olorin best of the names Gandalf had.
xmen510
Emperor
Well, technologies are an accumulation of Knowledge, correct? That is what the Guidance is. However, I am in no way against renaming or removing it. First, we need to actually decide what it represents however. 
xmen510
Emperor
Here comes xmen510 with an "All-New, All-Different" Tech Tree list. Yes, xmen510 does indeed love his lists!
This time we have the Tech Tree List with No Prerequisites. A Blank Tech Tree. I have done this so that we can start assigning Bonuses. Units, Buildings, etc., once we are ready. Some will be easy, some, not so easy, especially at the start.
So here we go. Where there is a hyphen, we need to add something. If you want, we can start with only 1 type of things at first. Appearance of resource, Bonus it grants, Unit assigned, etc., just let me know. If you want, I can start it, or we can wait until things are finalized to make it easier. I would suggest the waiting. I just did this list to make it easier on us later on.
Once we have finished on set of Bonuses, I can then add this list to the Tech Prerequisite List, and so on, and so on. Until it is finished.
This time we have the Tech Tree List with No Prerequisites. A Blank Tech Tree. I have done this so that we can start assigning Bonuses. Units, Buildings, etc., once we are ready. Some will be easy, some, not so easy, especially at the start.
So here we go. Where there is a hyphen, we need to add something. If you want, we can start with only 1 type of things at first. Appearance of resource, Bonus it grants, Unit assigned, etc., just let me know. If you want, I can start it, or we can wait until things are finalized to make it easier. I would suggest the waiting. I just did this list to make it easier on us later on.
Once we have finished on set of Bonuses, I can then add this list to the Tech Prerequisite List, and so on, and so on. Until it is finished.
Spoiler :
Elda King
Prince
I think that sometimes it simply makes more sense. For example, Dwarves could go further on mining techs (gaining greater bonuses, but not for free), and Númenor could have more naval and exploration techs. Some techs don't make sense at all for some civs - like Council of Wises for the shadow. Civs like Númenor would have way too many ships for a single tech, and having a lot of naval techs that do nothing for anyone but they could research would simply mess the AI.
About Council of Wises: actually, it was intended for enabling one civic... It represented the benevolent ruling as that of Rivendell or such, and would also allow the White Council wonder. If I recall well, there was one "Wizards" tech for the coming of the Istari (but then, we didn't have events at that time).
I still prefer the name Runes. It gives a more ME-feeling...
One thing: remember that the Men didn't exist until the First Age, but the Elves were already far advanced at the Age of Stars (they had lived in Valinor for a long while). The Age of Stars was simply a name for the "pre-history", an age full of free techs for elves (remember, they had more expensive units) and things that differentiated all civs (the Noldor were great jewelcrafters but poor shipbuilders, and the Teleri were the inverse).
xmen510
Emperor
Lots of good ideas there Elda. We should take a lot of Elda said under serious consideration there. It makes a lot of sense. Perhaps we could take a look at what we have done and see about some of this. I like the idea of certain races going further in certain techs. Such as Men could go further in construction.
I think the Coming of the Istari should deffinately be a Project. Council of Wises allowing you to build the White Council would be good to have. Also limit it to "Good" Aligned Civ only.
Lots of ideas there. Perhaps if the Map is large enough for Arda and or Random we could make sure all Eldar Civs start on the "New World" (Arda) continent and the other Civs start on the "Old World" (Middle-Earth). This way the Elves could start with all Age of the Stars Techs without influencing the other Civs to begin with. Perhaps those ideas are good for scenarios too.
Runes could be a Swarven specific Tech.
Lots of great ideas there.
I think the Coming of the Istari should deffinately be a Project. Council of Wises allowing you to build the White Council would be good to have. Also limit it to "Good" Aligned Civ only.
Lots of ideas there. Perhaps if the Map is large enough for Arda and or Random we could make sure all Eldar Civs start on the "New World" (Arda) continent and the other Civs start on the "Old World" (Middle-Earth). This way the Elves could start with all Age of the Stars Techs without influencing the other Civs to begin with. Perhaps those ideas are good for scenarios too.
Runes could be a Swarven specific Tech.
Lots of great ideas there.
T_F
Reynardine the Great
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2007
- Messages
- 1,163
For Council of Wises or whatever we could diversify it into just Councils, and could allow some evil-versioned council civic (in the vein of Undercouncil, but not necessarily a UN-type thing) to Evil people.
I like Elda King's ideas for civ-specific techs. So Dwarves (and quite possibly Noldor) would get mining stuff, Numenor and the Teleri get ship stuff (likely different ship stuff, but it might be interesting if they got just a separate Seafaring branch with the same basic stuff), um... Sindar get forest bonus stuff, Rohan gets horsemanship stuff... what about Arnor and Gondor and the rest of the Men?
For the Age of Stars, we may have to just overlook that (like plain Civ4 does on a normal random map game). We could do an RFC thing where all men civs appear later than everybody else, but that doesn't seem like it would be easy pull off in a balanced way.
If we do have all the Elves start in Valinor, it makes it WAY harder to get them to interact with anyone other than each other. You would have to make abandoning all cities on a continent and getting a bunch of ships with settlers possible, and it would be pretty hard to get the AI to do that. Which is a bit of a shame since it be an awesome game-altering event, but still...
For Runes (here we go again), AFAIK the Sindar actually invented them. I still think Writing is the best choice (and even if we split it into Tengwar and Runes, that's two techs you have to research, and what about Men?). Yes it does feel more ME-y, but it's not fully representative of what it intends to represent.
On second thought, splitting it is an interesting idea. It would represent a civ's choice of official script (once you research one you can't get the other), and each would have different bonuses attached. Hmm, that might be really interesting.
I like Elda King's ideas for civ-specific techs. So Dwarves (and quite possibly Noldor) would get mining stuff, Numenor and the Teleri get ship stuff (likely different ship stuff, but it might be interesting if they got just a separate Seafaring branch with the same basic stuff), um... Sindar get forest bonus stuff, Rohan gets horsemanship stuff... what about Arnor and Gondor and the rest of the Men?
For the Age of Stars, we may have to just overlook that (like plain Civ4 does on a normal random map game). We could do an RFC thing where all men civs appear later than everybody else, but that doesn't seem like it would be easy pull off in a balanced way.
If we do have all the Elves start in Valinor, it makes it WAY harder to get them to interact with anyone other than each other. You would have to make abandoning all cities on a continent and getting a bunch of ships with settlers possible, and it would be pretty hard to get the AI to do that. Which is a bit of a shame since it be an awesome game-altering event, but still...
For Runes (here we go again), AFAIK the Sindar actually invented them. I still think Writing is the best choice (and even if we split it into Tengwar and Runes, that's two techs you have to research, and what about Men?). Yes it does feel more ME-y, but it's not fully representative of what it intends to represent.
On second thought, splitting it is an interesting idea. It would represent a civ's choice of official script (once you research one you can't get the other), and each would have different bonuses attached. Hmm, that might be really interesting.
I don't have any problem with a civ-specific tech, my point was that it is unnecessary to have two variants on the same tech, one for good, one for evil, with the only reason to split them being that it would enable some evil/good things (especially when there can be a neutrally named tech that can do either depending on alignment). It also provides problems if civs fall from grace (good to evil), which would cause them to have to research some techs again, to get the evil equivalent of what they could allready do when they were still good (I would argue that the turning to evil allowed them to use the same tech in an evil way, whereas they used it for good before. Other arguments can be made as well though. It would also cause unnecessary clutter on the techtree.
However having techs that can only be researched by specific civs will give a lot of uniques to those civs and will enhance replay value, so I'm in favor of those.
I hope this rambling makes sense, I wanted to try to clear up my position, but I might have made it a bit harder to understand in the progress
I suppose that would work.
I agree, though we don't need a civ-specific tech for everyone (and some civs might get more then one)
I agree, though for scenarios we might/will come back to this idea.
Splitting might work and will add a new element to the game (for example: techtrading only enabled for civs with the same writing-tech, have a wonder that enables a civ to communicate as if it had both techs, etc.), but will require a lot of discussion and balancing. If we are going this way, we should open a discussion thread for this specifically. We should also consider putting this of untill a later release.
xmen510
Emperor
I think that would be great for a later release. Remember, lets focus on getting this thing working and out for playtesting.
xmen510
Emperor
For Dwarves you could have:
Mithril Weapons: adds bonus to all units attack values if you then build a Mithril Weaponsmith.
Mithril Armor: add bonus to all units defence values if you then build a Mithril Armorer.
Expert Mining: build a greater forge or increases the output of mines.
Just a few examples.
Mithril Weapons: adds bonus to all units attack values if you then build a Mithril Weaponsmith.
Mithril Armor: add bonus to all units defence values if you then build a Mithril Armorer.
Expert Mining: build a greater forge or increases the output of mines.
Just a few examples.
I would do Mithril Smithing, as weapons and armor are a commodity instead. However I don't think we should limit Mithril to the dwarves. Or are you suggesting that Mithril (whatever) allows bonuses on top of the Mithril bonus?
I like Expert Mining, maybe Tunneling as well
I like Expert Mining, maybe Tunneling as well
