Technologies relating to resource discoveries...

[mjs0]

Having read the discussion on this thread about when resources should become visible I think much of the problem is that we the players always have out-of-game knowledge about the future and direct research according to that meta-knowledge. The realities of the in-game situation (i.e. access to resources) don't always end up matching well with that knowledge of possible future capabilities.
So, the following idea occurred to me:

Why not make most early resources (but not e.g. uranium or oil) visible initially as generic bonuses and reveal the actual resource as soon as you are able to research a tech that makes use of that resource.

• +1 commerce (precious metals, wildlife, or appropriate plantation resources)
• +1 food (crop, livestock or appropriate plantation resources)
• +1 production (mined metals/quarried goods)

So, for example, (using terms)...
The map would display:

• a generic livestock graphic for all domesticatable livestock (cows, horses, pigs and sheep) before researching animal husbandry.
• a generic seafood graphic for all coastal seafood resources (fish, clams, crabs) before researching fishing.
• generic food (banana/sugar) or commerce (the rest) graphics for plantation crops before researching calendar.
• etc...

and, to reveal:

• Stone or Marble you would need either Mining or Mysticism which lead to masonry
• Copper you would need mining which leads to bronze working
• Iron you would need bronze working which leads to iron working
• Aluminium you would need Assembly Line and Electricity which lead to Industrialism
• Coal you would need Chemistry and Replaceable Parts which lead to Steam Power
• etc...

This would make more sense as you would research the use of a resource after you have found it and identified it as potentially useful.
It also avoids the frustration of investing in a tech (because of your out-of-game meta-knowledge) only to discover that your in-game self doesn't have access to the resource that made the tech useful!

This looks like a lot of words to describe the idea, but I am certain that the gameplay would actually be easier to understand than the description of it!!

 

[Naokaukodem]

I see what you're saying, but I think there's a difference between your race having the technology to ride horses into battle, and a handful of your people riding horses for transport and you thinking "ah, if we can improve this technology we can use it for military purposes, and there certainly are lots of horses around".

At first, horses couldn't be mounted. They were used for pulling objects, and possibly chars. it may have been different for camels, but in Civ4 we don't see them until Guilds, which makes me think they were used later than horses in reality, eventhough they probably could have been used a lot sooner.

So yes you are right, it is more logic to simulate the progressive way of the different uses of horses. (but what about camels then? I hardly heard anywhere that they were used for chariots) Still, it is more logic to make them appear since the start, but again there's the problem of the knowledge of the player, who already knows how crucial this ressource will become. It sounds better when it comes to bronze, where the ressource could be unveiled with Mining, reducing the reaction time of the player between the time he knows where is this ressource and the time he can actually use it. Maybe an intermediate tech unveiling horses, like Animal Husbandry, another to be able to use them with war chariots (and not as soon as the Wheel like in Civ4), and yet another one, more deep in the tree, allowing to ride them. (i have an idea here: if ressouces are growing like Civ4 cottages in Civ5, maybe we could use horseback riding only when the ressource of horses reach its full size? there would not be anymore the use of another tech...)

I mean, that certainly makes much more sense than spending years researching how to ride a particular animal just to have your advisors come to you when it's complete and say "sire, we have the ability to ride 'horses'. Unfortunately, these animals do not seem to exist in all the known world".

That really is a rather silly situation to find yourself in.

Yes, but i hardly see a 100% satisfying solution to this yet... the better as i said previously would be to separate the horse riding tech into several close techs, so that the player, for example, could not even build a settler mid time and profit for his knowledge of human or even player (if he played other games before).

Then, there would be animal husbandry in the tech tree, and if and only if you have horses connected, you can then search war chariots and horseback riding.

 

[kivanc]

I really suggest this for solution:
every nation should be able to train its UU w/o any resource. I mean, they should automatically have the resource w/o any settlement near it but they should still need the related tech. Because persia w/o immortals is weird.

However together with that, i also believe some UUs should be nerfed. (quechua, immortal etc.)