CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Thanks for the update, Furiey! I'm out of time right now but I'll try to look at the save before I go to bed tonight.
Term 2 - Trade N Tech (TNT)
- Thread starter CommandoBob
- Start date
There was a lot of discussion about not trading Philosophy in order to keep everyone as far away as possible from Republic.
We also have the option of building the Great Library and then "stealing" from the Fomorach. In that case we don't want to trade and only need to research the techs we absolutely need.
We also have the option of building the Great Library and then "stealing" from the Fomorach. In that case we don't want to trade and only need to research the techs we absolutely need.
Cyc
Looking for the door...
I'm for withholding our techs from everyone at the moment.
Bowsling
Deity
I seriously want to get IW.
Our Gallic Swordsmen will be much better explorers, with better movement points and barbarians will just get destroyed. If we find a weak AI, than we could get a G/A wiping 'em out with a Gallic Swordsman, we already have a republic, five cities, and two settlers.
Our Gallic Swordsmen will be much better explorers, with better movement points and barbarians will just get destroyed. If we find a weak AI, than we could get a G/A wiping 'em out with a Gallic Swordsman, we already have a republic, five cities, and two settlers.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
A better trade would be Literature for Iron Working and Masonry and whatever gold we could get. That keeps Philosophy and Code Of Laws intact for further trading.
Tech Costs Per CAII
- Our Techs
- Philosophy 149
- Code of Laws 248
- Literature 248
- Republic 696 (not tradeable right now)
- Byzantium Techs
- Masonry 90
- Iron Working 138
- Map Making 298
If we offer Code of Laws we can get Masonry, Iron Working and all of Theodora's gold. But we give up a tech that leads to Republic.
Literature is optional, which may explain why the AI offers less for it.
However, Literature opens us the way to The Great Library. Byzantium and the Orange Apes are both building The Pyramids. If we trade away Lit, we could be trading away our shot at the Great Library, slated to be built in Maeve, where it will take 27 turns to complete, due to a Wonder Cascade.
Bottom Line
I don't think that trading to get Iron Working is worth either tech we have to trade. We either make Republic easier for the AI or put the Great Library at risk.
Let us self-research Iron Working (7 turns), and then start on Map Making (15 turns).
TheOverseer714
Overseer
The question I have is why are we so afraid someone will eventually research Republic? In my experience, the AIs almost never research Republic before Monarchy and Construction. At Emperor in my games, Republic is usually a monopoly until the I trade it away. If we want IW, trade for it or wait for the GLib to get it seems wisest to me. The Bzyzies will be doing Polytheism, Monarchy and Construction before even thinking about Republic. In my years on this site, I've seen very few players encouraging tech-hoarding and many encouraging getting good value out of hard-earned research. I don't want to be a crank, but I do want Hibernia to flourish.
Isolationism is not a good policy.
Isolationism is not a good policy.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Overall, I agree with you. I find it strange that I keep suggesting that we don't trade. It seems so backwards and almost wrong.
The best reason I have not to trade either Philosophy or CoL is to keep them as trade bait when we get overseas. I think we're building a boat somewhere to explore the rest of the world. If don't have a boat in the works, then, yes, let's get some use of those two techs.
Not trading Literature is just in our self interest for right now, until The Pyramids are built. But that has been better discussed in another thread.
Update:
The Great Library is ours! However the 3 civs that we know are isolated from each other, so we don't get many techs automatically yet.
The Great Library is ours! However the 3 civs that we know are isolated from each other, so we don't get many techs automatically yet.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Per CAII, Currency costs 426, we've gathtered 337, leaving 89 beakers to go.
We bring in 45 bpt, so we'll have a 1 beaker overrun.
We are growing our treasury at -12 gpt, with 29 gold in the bank. Two more turns and that has got to change.
Construction costs 533, which is 11.84 turns at the current rate, which we cannot afford. Three libraries will complete soon to help with research.
We will be forced to research Construction slowly.
Based on the current economy, the rate would be 20% (23 bpt) with +6 gpt, or 23.17 turns; roughly twice as long. (No surprise there since we are dropping from 40% science to 20%; half as many beakers each turn doubles the learing curve. Just stating the obvious.)
Tech and Trade suggests (since this is not TnT's worry) that the current library builds be switched to markets once Currency is known. That will help our cities to be less unhappy (and less to worry about) while generating some extra beakers to science. The libraries could follow the markets in the build order.
Suggested tech path: Currency (in 2 turns), learn Construction (slowly, as explained above) and then Horseback Riding (which nobody knows right now) and finally Map Making (known only by the Byzantines). We should be able to pick up Map Making from the GLib, probably before we learn Constructon. We might be able to get HBR in the same way, but that seems doubtful based on the game situation. Hiring one geek might be the best way to get HBR via the GLib while we build up cash for something.
Tech Research Order: Currency at full speed, Construction as fast as we can, Horseback Riding at one geek, expecting to get Map Making via the Great Library.
If we make it into the Middle Ages, Engineering (for bridges and faster movement) should be learned before Feudalism (Pikes, Maces and Sun Tzu's Art of War). With GSs and ACs, and a quiet world, we don't have an immediate need for the new units of war.
Tech Suggestions: Change current library builds to markets and then rebuild libraries.
We bring in 45 bpt, so we'll have a 1 beaker overrun.
We are growing our treasury at -12 gpt, with 29 gold in the bank. Two more turns and that has got to change.
Construction costs 533, which is 11.84 turns at the current rate, which we cannot afford. Three libraries will complete soon to help with research.
We will be forced to research Construction slowly.
Based on the current economy, the rate would be 20% (23 bpt) with +6 gpt, or 23.17 turns; roughly twice as long. (No surprise there since we are dropping from 40% science to 20%; half as many beakers each turn doubles the learing curve. Just stating the obvious.)
Tech and Trade suggests (since this is not TnT's worry) that the current library builds be switched to markets once Currency is known. That will help our cities to be less unhappy (and less to worry about) while generating some extra beakers to science. The libraries could follow the markets in the build order.
Suggested tech path: Currency (in 2 turns), learn Construction (slowly, as explained above) and then Horseback Riding (which nobody knows right now) and finally Map Making (known only by the Byzantines). We should be able to pick up Map Making from the GLib, probably before we learn Constructon. We might be able to get HBR in the same way, but that seems doubtful based on the game situation. Hiring one geek might be the best way to get HBR via the GLib while we build up cash for something.
Tech Research Order: Currency at full speed, Construction as fast as we can, Horseback Riding at one geek, expecting to get Map Making via the Great Library.
If we make it into the Middle Ages, Engineering (for bridges and faster movement) should be learned before Feudalism (Pikes, Maces and Sun Tzu's Art of War). With GSs and ACs, and a quiet world, we don't have an immediate need for the new units of war.
Tech Suggestions: Change current library builds to markets and then rebuild libraries.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Ottomans know Monarchy (monopoly tech) and Byzantines know Map Making (also a monopoly tech). Monarchy we don't need (except as trade bait when we cross the oceans) and Map Making we can wait on. If either the Ottomans or the Orange Apes learn it, so do we.
We are the tech leaders on our part of the world and will be so for a long time.
Trade Recommendations: No trades at this time.
We are the tech leaders on our part of the world and will be so for a long time.
Trade Recommendations: No trades at this time.
I'm hoping the other civs will find each other and start trading, since we automatically get the benefit as soon as two of them know a tech. 
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
We are learning Construction at 40%, 8 turns left, +2 gpt.
We have two libraries built and two more under construction. Both cities with libraries are building Gallic Swords, one city is building Statue of Zeus, with three markets and one barracks being built in the other cities.
Not much has changed in the last two hundred years. Well, the Byazntines now know Horseback Riding, which they didn't in 450 BC. Map Making will cost us 298 beakers; HBR is much cheaper at 122. I hope that in 8 turns The Great Library will give us those two tech.
Tech Research Order: Construction first, followed by Map Making, then Horseback Riding. In the Middle Ages (if we get there this turnset) Engineering is first, followed by Feudalism. Once we get Construction, learning at one-geek speed while we get rich is fine.
We have two libraries built and two more under construction. Both cities with libraries are building Gallic Swords, one city is building Statue of Zeus, with three markets and one barracks being built in the other cities.
Not much has changed in the last two hundred years. Well, the Byazntines now know Horseback Riding, which they didn't in 450 BC. Map Making will cost us 298 beakers; HBR is much cheaper at 122. I hope that in 8 turns The Great Library will give us those two tech.
Tech Research Order: Construction first, followed by Map Making, then Horseback Riding. In the Middle Ages (if we get there this turnset) Engineering is first, followed by Feudalism. Once we get Construction, learning at one-geek speed while we get rich is fine.
Cyc
Looking for the door...
I plann on turning the Sci Rate to 0% for a couple of turns, CB. We need rush/upgrade gold.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Byzantines have a monopoly on Map Making and Horseback Riding.
We have a monopoly on Literature, Republic and Currency.
If, when we learn Construction, we have not learned Map Making and Horseback Riding, we can trade for them. We could do that now but let's see what The Great Library can do for us.
We do have a trade opportunity with the Orange Apes. They lack Writing and would bankrupt themselves to learn this tech. Our treasury would increase by 219 gold. This would leave them one tech behind the Ottomans (Philosophy) and four techs behind the Byzantines (Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making and Horseback Riding) and far behind us. The dolts would be grateful to us for taking their cash.
In earlier discussions, we would not lower ourselves to beg knowledge from them and increase their treasury. We now have the chance to sell them a rather worthless piece of knowldege for a fair amount of gold.
Trade Recommendations: Sell Writing to the Orange Apes for all their gold.
EDIT (in italics):
If, after learning Construction, we want to enter the Middle Ages, trade with Bzyantines for whatever tech(s) we lack. We'll try to get the techs we need and all their gold, if we can.
(Changed my mind, now think that stopping to discuss is better.)
Trade Suggestions: I would ask that the turns cease once we learn Construction, if and only if we have not learned Map Making and Horseback Riding. We would want to discuss the wisdom of gifting Byzantium/Ottomans into the Middle Ages and trading for free tech.
We have a monopoly on Literature, Republic and Currency.
If, when we learn Construction, we have not learned Map Making and Horseback Riding, we can trade for them. We could do that now but let's see what The Great Library can do for us.
We do have a trade opportunity with the Orange Apes. They lack Writing and would bankrupt themselves to learn this tech. Our treasury would increase by 219 gold. This would leave them one tech behind the Ottomans (Philosophy) and four techs behind the Byzantines (Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making and Horseback Riding) and far behind us. The dolts would be grateful to us for taking their cash.
In earlier discussions, we would not lower ourselves to beg knowledge from them and increase their treasury. We now have the chance to sell them a rather worthless piece of knowldege for a fair amount of gold.
Trade Recommendations: Sell Writing to the Orange Apes for all their gold.
EDIT (in italics):
(Changed my mind, now think that stopping to discuss is better.)
Trade Suggestions: I would ask that the turns cease once we learn Construction, if and only if we have not learned Map Making and Horseback Riding. We would want to discuss the wisdom of gifting Byzantium/Ottomans into the Middle Ages and trading for free tech.
My chart was posted for the forum to see and post constructive comments. Your assumption, out of honesty, that I will be discussing where I was whipsawed, is appreciated, however you are already too far into your assumption, as I have yet to trade this. Hence the purpose of my post.
You mentioned the best trader in the world. I dont think that is possible, but if we all you too Manny strive for that, and only get halfway there, then we are still doing well
CONSTRUCTIVE comments wanted
later
You mentioned the best trader in the world. I dont think that is possible, but if we all you too Manny strive for that, and only get halfway there, then we are still doing well
CONSTRUCTIVE comments wanted
later
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
This is Ammiddeon first post, on August 26, 2009, after joining the forum on August 2, 2009.
I have no idea what this person is talking about. I really hate to respond at all, but since post counts can change, it would not be obvious later that this is Ammiddeon's first post, and someone might try to track down the post he is talking about.
Cyc
Looking for the door...
Furiey
No Longer Just Lurking
Looks like we all had the same idea...
