Term 6 Nomination: Warlord

[Joe Harker]

Ahh but, what if we haven't got (or can't raise) 1000/2000 gold when we are invaded, then we are in a sticky mess arn't we.

I want to upgrade units that are worth upgrading (about three promotions so at least we agree on that) and as soon as possible so that when an invasion happens i can say "we have 8 cavalry units ready", rather than, "well we can have 8 cavalry in the next 4 turns ready to stop them."

The Cavalry arn't that bad at taking cities, yes worse than riflemen, but they make good units to wipe up the remain units and any units that come and counter-attack the the newly captured city.

One of the reasons i have got more siege weapons is to prevent a high mortality rate, by softing up the defences.


But again what if there are no wonders to be built in Riversight, we not going to build that many anyway, i wounld't have thought.

 

[Provolution]

Again, we will see the invasion with our fleet, and we can sure win the fight with the infantry if that is the case.

Also, we can do the upgrades from time to time, and per turn. If the invasion is big, we max out the gold slider and upgrade in 1-2 turns. if the invasion is minor, we only upgrade how many units we need.

I think we shall not squander hammers to build new units, when we don't have to. We rather need more buildings.

If we are invaded, we can also draft citizen units, and the double city garrison will keep the cities safe. I frankly do not think cavalry will be key in stopping invaders.

Your scenario, which is costlier and barely scaleable, will bring us less promoted units and less upgradeable units.

In fact, if we got less than 10 keshiks and knights after the Roman wars, I may well replace them with infantry as well, after gauging some citizen input.

 

[Joe Harker]

Again I don't think the plan with our navy is fool proof, therefore what i am worried about is that we get caught with our pants down and it takes two turns to get enough troops that can face combat, let alone getting to the landings.

What major buildings are that that need to be built, take Riversight as an example, in the next age it needs to build a factory and a power plant, there is not that much to build and it helps with the building of units so we may as well use it, it won't cost money to build a new army while disbanding the old units. (think of it as building new equipment for the units to be disbanded, instead of paying 100s of gold trying to fit them with new stuff)

Drafting also poses a problem, it's one turn of revolution (at least!), one turn without gold that could be upgrading units. (of course switching civics doesn't have to be straight away but that would decrease the force ready to stop the invasion!)

My way isn't costilier, it just a different way of doing things. It won't give poorly promoted units because the better units would be upgraded!

 

[Provolution]

Well, I think we see two options clearly now. You basically took my naval set-up and amended it slightly (caravel minus one and galleon plus one, and plus three frigates).

The main difference, except for the economics in all this, is the cavalry army vs. the infantry army, and scaleability.

Nationalism is also a good civic, with no upkeep at all. I would advocate for that when most of the army is built.

Again, I am not to upgrade units with less than 3 promotions, so I do not accept being described as the one upgrading lousy units.

I am going to make the naval screen fool-proof, and there are ways to do that (as long as one does not forget my instructions).

 

[Joe Harker]

Again, I am not to upgrade units with less than 3 promotions, so I do not accept being described as the one upgrading lousy units.

So what do you propose to replace these units when they are past it.

Nationalism is also a good civic, with no upkeep at all. I would advocate for that when most of the army is built.

From our point of view, yes it would be a good civic, but the rest of the citizen may want free speech or something else.

I am going to make the naval screen fool-proof, and there are ways to do that (as long as one does not forget my instructions).

Nothing is ever fool proof in the miltary, there is always a small chance of something going wrong (especially if someone forgets the instructions)

The main difference, except for the economics in all this, is the cavalry army vs. the infantry army, and scaleability.

Again riflemen make up most of my proposed army just like yours, just there is a bit more emphasise on cavalry.

 

[Provolution]

I will of course build new units where there is a gap, of course.

And yes, your cavalry army is 50 % larger than what I propose. I am also inclined to use older units as secondary garrisons or to block certain tiles.

If we are to be invaded, we would produce units very fast to counter said invasion. We are not laying eggs in the same basket.

And yes, I am confident, that with the right support, the naval screen will be fool-proof. I know I trust my Civ skills on that.

I will of course follow the will of the people on Civics, I am just pointing out that Nationalism is a good civic for our needs. Then again, Vassalage is a good one as well in the build-up phase.

 

[Joe Harker]

I will of course build new units where there is a gap, of course.

Well let's stop argueing over the thing when we plan to do the same thing!

And yes, your cavalry army is 50 % larger than what I propose. I am also inclined to use older units as secondary garrisons or to block certain tiles.

I fear the older units may not be up to srcatch, especially since all the other civs apart from Germany and Rome are more advanced. (Although until new units come, they will be fine as interim troops).

I will of course follow the will of the people on Civics, I am just pointing out that Nationalism is a good civic for our needs. Then again, Vassalage is a good one as well in the build-up phase.

I wasn't saying you would go against the peoples will i was just pointing out that they will probably only accept it in an emergency!

And yes, I am confident, that with the right support, the naval screen will be fool-proof. I know I trust my Civ skills on that.

Again, I trust your civ skills, i mean you counter my arguements in a way that says your a good civ player, however miltary plans will always have a leak somewhere whether you created it, i created it, Bernard Montgomery created it or my Gran created it, it's just a fact that plans also have a weak point and it often happens where you least expect it to.

If we are to be invaded, we would produce units very fast to counter said invasion. We are not laying eggs in the same basket.

I don't get the last thing of the paragraph, but yes indeed we can produce units when we are invaded at a good rate and we will, but one thing i carried from civ 3 was my dependence on building enough unit when an invasion happen (an 0 turn movement with railroad) and i don't want to base our plans on that, not that you will or have, in fact you have kept our miltary at a respectful size. But we shouldn't have to base our plans on building new units, instead, to see it has a nice bonus to have when dealing with an invading force.

 

[Provolution]

Well, the basic idea is that I will fight our wars very quickly in medieval wars on our continent and wait for WW1 and WW2 technology to decide if an invasion is needed our not.

You would more like Napoleonic or Age of Imperialism Wars. Your cavalry suggests that. Again, I want to find the undiscovered, and most likely, Christian Civ, and figure out how their land looks like. I checked the wonder list, and that list suggests a non-aggressive Civ, since most of the wonders were very cultural. The amount of wonders not attributed to the known civs, also suggests that they may have the technology lead, and be on a separate continent, since neither the Japanese or Aztecs have attacked them.

The unknown civ will be the main target for a war, as I guess they do not have the aggressive trait. With Aggressive trait and troops built under Vassalage and with barracks.

I also trust citizen input, like you have shown in this debate to me, as citizen to warlord would improve my plans. In fact, this debate have helped tune my plans to the better, thank you for that. This way, the naval screen will be perfected.

 

[Joe Harker]

Well, the basic idea is that I will fight our wars very quickly in medieval wars on our continent

Couldn't agree more with you!

You would more like Napoleonic or Age of Imperialism Wars. Your cavalry suggests that.

I don't prefer them, i am just saying we should prepare for them.

I want to find the undiscovered, and most likely, Christian Civ, and figure out how their land looks like. I checked the wonder list, and that list suggests a non-aggressive Civ, since most of the wonders were very cultural. The amount of wonders not attributed to the known civs, also suggests that they may have the technology lead, and be on a separate continent, since neither the Japanese or Aztecs have attacked them.

Again I agree, although i think they will be on the same island as isolated civs are often are behind in the tech race.

The unknown civ will be the main target for a war, as I guess they do not have the aggressive trait. With Aggressive trait and troops built under Vassalage and with barracks.

Again I completely agree.

I also trust citizen input, like you have shown in this debate to me, as citizen to warlord would improve my plans. In fact, this debate have helped tune my plans to the better, thank you for that. This way, the naval screen will be perfected.

Glad to have helped you

 

[Provolution]

I am certain that the infantry can handle wars as well and effective, just cheaper.