Term 6 - Office of the Judiciary - Court is in session

[Octavian X]

No need to, Goonie. Everyone makes mistakes. In fact, nothing technically requires a post in the chat instruction thread, other that various indiriect mentions involving governor's duties.

BTW, when I was doing some research about Goonie's admission of guilt, I found some problems with our current standard involving our current turn chat standard...

1. CoS B.2.A states Chat Threads must be in the Government Sub-forum, though CoS A.1.K states that they mut be in the main forum.
2. The current and last chat threads need to be stickied (CoS B.2.D)
3. Those same chat threads should be the only open ones: older ones should be closed (CoS B.2.E)

I ask that the first be amended to allow for our current thread placement, and that the last two either be changed or enforeced.

 

[naervod]

We should talk to the mods about numbers 2 and 3, although we should get a discussion started about taking away CoS B.2.A or CoS A.1.K.

 

[naervod]

In my reading of the CoS, I do not see a conflict, in fact there is not even a section B. The beginning of the CoS is all in a jumble, maybe that can be fixed and made more clear.

 

[Cyc]

Originally posted by FortyJ
Goonie
Well, I don't know about the rest of the Judiciary, but I'll consider that a confession of guilt. Hence, thanks to our newest standard concerning confessions, I move for immediate sentencing on the crime of neglecting one's duties as governor.

Ok... let's get serious shall we?

I'm not going to initiate a PI for this. Unless both Octavian and Naervod wish to move forward on this issue, I will consider it dead.

You have still not updated the summary.
I disagree with this decision.

Moderator Action: Edited for trolling. Final Warning
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Goonie]

Huh? CYC are you a mod now? If not edit that quick!

 

[Shaitan]

That was edited by me, Goonie. You can always see who edited a post by looking at the very bottom of it where there will be an "edited" stamp.

 

[Cyc]

I'm sorry you felt that was trolling, Shaitan, I disagree with you. The fact remains, the CJ is using personal opinion to justify his actions in the court. You know this is wrong and everyone else knows this is wrong. No where in the Constitution does it say the CJ is allowed to come off an absense and dismiss a sentancing poll, while reversing a verdict. Ignoring a citizen's request for corrective action is not a sign of a true leader. You also know that as well. And look! I'm going to end this post without making any jokes!

 

[FortyJ]

Originally posted by Cyc
You have still not updated the summary.
I disagree with this decision.

First, I've edited the table to associate the links with the correct PIs. I apologize for the previous error. It was not intentional.

With respect to the dismissal of Goonie's request for a PI on himself, I will say this:

Failure to post instructions may be construed as absence from the forums/demogame. Such absences are permitted and excusable, and always have been. While such absences are permitted, they are obviously frowned upon by the citizenry as a whole and such actions surely will be considered during the next election cycle.

However, there are ample provisions for the DP to take corrective action in the event of such absences. They are outlined clearly within our own laws. His absence was correctable and likely caused no damage.

Furthermore, one could argue that there has been a long-standing precedent established in the demogame that such behavior is not subject to a Public Investigation. I doubt seriously that any one of us can provide an accurate figure on the number of times that orders have not been posted in the instruction thread (and consequently gone unpunished - hence the precedent...) since the inception of this game.

<><><><>

Now, with respect to your comments on my use of personal opinions in making my judgements...

I have done my best to avoid letting my personal opinions interfere with this ridiculous charade that you have perpetrated here this past term. I am seriously offended that you would imply that I would act partial or favorable when entrusted with the great responsibility of this office. I think it fair to say that the person acting the least impartial this past term has been you.

Instead of working in a productive fashion, you have chosen to use our rules in a destructive way. Your decision to bring six PIs, and the personal vengeance that you have displayed throughout the entire process has done more damage to this game than any action that Chieftess or any other citizen could have possibly done this past term. I hold you personally responsible for the stagnation that we have experienced this past month.

This personal beef you have with Chieftess has gone too far. Bring one charge, fine. Two or three, okay. But by bringing six, several of which were clearly unfounded (and two of which were essentially the same charge divided into two different PIs), is too much and screams of vendetta.

Those are my personal opinions. Now, I could have tried to dismiss all but two of the charges, or better yet, I could have initiated a PI against you for suspiciously terrorist-like activities including the intentional disruption of the demogame or actions inconsistent with the best interests of Fanatika. I didn't. I allowed the process to move forward, despite my personal opinions on the subjects.

When I was president, I enjoyed your involvement in the game. It was productive and beneficial to all. I have seen little of that this past term, and that is the biggest loss of all this term.

Note to moderators: I have tried to keep this to a criticism and refrain from any personal digs or insults so as not to "troll", however, if you feel that a warning is justified, feel free to do so - I had to speak my peace...

 

[Cyc]

Quoting 40J:
I hold you personally responsible for the stagnation that we have experienced this past month.
______________________________________________

This post is also not a dig or a troll (to those who may be concerned), but a helpful explanation to an opposing point of view. To start off with, a definition;



stag·na·tion [ stag náysh’n ]
noun

condition of inactivity: a condition of no movement, activity, development, or progress, or the process of becoming like this



Thesaurus

stagnation (n)


inactivity, inaction, inertia, torpor, sluggishness, immobility, lack of progress, unproductivity Antonym: movement
______________________________________________

As you can see by the definition of the word, this term was anything but stagnation. Stagnation would describe this thread before my open letter to this court. Since that open letter, this thread alone has recieved over 150 posts. That's not to mention all the other threads that were started in order to deal with the different areas involved with the issues of Term #6. You closed your Presidency claiming to be the Lame Duck President, and your started this term continuing the same type of policy. Again, this is not a slam on you, just stating he facts. A policy of non-invovlement is not the best way to approach a government position, IMHO.

Since the open letter mentioned above, we have seen major discussion in several different areas, PI's and the rights of the Governors just to name two. There are now two proposals on the docket for changes to the CoL about the Worker issues. We will probably see sweeping changes in the PI system also. You see it wasn't a case of stagnation, 40J. It was more of a case of people coming off their toadstools and voicing their opinions about matters that concern them. People moving important issues forward in discussion the affect the basic structure of the Demogame. Quite the opposite of the Lame Duck approach. Although this may go against your political philosophy, I see this as a good thing.

In regards to a personal beef that I might have with Chieftess, using your words, I would not have had anything to say about the way Chieftess ran her Administration had she not broken the laws of Fanatika. And, yes. Three laws were broken, as proven by the guilty verdicts and sentencing polls. You can call this a vendetta if you please, but I call it exercising my rights as a citizen of Fanatika. Failing to abide by the laws and procedures of the Constitution is a very wrong thing, 40J, when it is done by the President as well as the Chief Justice. The laws and procedures are there to keep our government above board. Have a good Term #7.

 

[Goonie]

Ahem! Forty J, I wasn't away from the forums, I just never saw the T/C thread.

 

[FortyJ]

If only we could truly measure our progress through number of posts in the Judicial thread.... My previous comments were not intended to be quite so narrow in scope.

By my calculations, we had nine (9) turn chats this past term, and during that same time period, we successfully advanced only twenty-one (21) turns. That is what I consider stagnation.

The length of time spent bickering (of which almost all of us are at least partially guilty...) over these PIs has seriously detracted from the time that could have been spent planning military strategies or city locations or budgetary items. Which is why, even though a few of them were justified, I feel that these PIs did more harm than good.

Having said that, I wish to make it clear that I am not against the PI process in general or the right of a citizen to call for one. However, I find it very curious, and quite telling, that immediately after the conclusion of your six PIs, that we find ourselves in the midst of a discussion about overhauling the entire process.

The PI should be used to prevent someone from doing terrible and irreperable harm to the demogame, but I'm sure that most would agree that they should never be the dominant force in any administration. Unfortunately, that is precisely what they became during this past term. It is a pity that Term 6 will be remember for your six PIs and not for the two Great Leaders that we received nor for any of our in-game accomplishments, which are quite hard to come by in twenty-one short turns.

 

[FortyJ]

Originally posted by Goonie
Ahem! Forty J, I wasn't away from the forums, I just never saw the T/C thread.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish, Goonie.

 

[Goonie]

Not trying to accomplish anything, just trying to clear up some miscommunication . I wasn't trying to be rude.

 

[Cyc]

I disagree 40J. I believe you're comparing apples to oranges again. The length of the turn chats really had little if anything to do with the PI's. Chieftess always had a good reason posted in the chat logs or chat summary as to why she was ending the t/c. Most were caused by F/A requests for stopping, or achieving a Great Leader, or maybe multiple trade deals. These things can not be pre-determined or discussed. Well I suppose you could project future jobs for G/L, but that could be futile.

The PI should be used to prevent someone from doing terrible and irreperable harm to the demogame

No, I believe PI's are to be used when a citizen feels someone has violated an Article of the Constitution or a law in the CoL. I could be wrong, but that's what the Constitution says. It doesn't have to be the Holocaust to initiate a PI. It just takes a concerned citizen when they see the Demogame headed in the wrong direction, punctuated by a law being broken.

 

[Goonie]

I have to agree with CYC here. The PI's were not the cause of the slow term.

 

[disorganizer]

btw: in the same phase of the game in dg1, we were even slower.... and had as many pi's and now... so this is a proove that history repeats itself

 

[Shaitan]

Term 7 thread