Terra maps, are they racist?

[Absolute Zero]

A possible point (I don't agree with) is that it might be construed racist that Shaka is a psychopath, Mali surrenders to somebody every game and Sitting Bull is coded to sit there and annoy everybody but never become powerful

I don't think the developers intended to make them irritating opponents. They just wanted to be realistic and coded Shaka to be aggressive, Mansa to be peaceful, and Sitting Bull to be...whatever he is - defensive? espionage-loving? This had the effect of making Shaka a heavy warmonger, Mansa a frequent vassal, and Sitting Bull a really annoying guy.

 

[Dr.Null]

how is that racist? That's like saying god is racist.

God is clearly racist, which is why He made my race better than yours.

 

[DroopyTofu]

I don't see that they are racist. Barbarian cities are the only way the game can have late starting cities. If the game was designed to have civs start at different times, I'm sure the developers would have made some civs that start later in the New World (RFC style), but since the game does not work like that, they did the next best thing.

It's equally likely to have the "Navive American" civ genociding the "Barbarians" of hte New World as it is for the Spanish to to that. It's just a game and has no affect anywhere besides in the game

BTW, I'm suprised not one has commented with the required "That's rasist" line.

 

[georgel123]

Barbarian, in strict meaning, means outsider, coined by Romans. Not really offensive, only a game.

 

[need my speed]

No no, barbaros was a Greek word, meaning everyone who wasn't a Greek. It was used by the Romans too though, but overtime, its meaning changed.

 

[Ataxerxes]

I don't think the developers intended to make them irritating opponents. They just wanted to be realistic and coded Shaka to be aggressive, Mansa to be peaceful, and Sitting Bull to be...whatever he is - defensive? espionage-loving? This had the effect of making Shaka a heavy warmonger, Mansa a frequent vassal, and Sitting Bull a really annoying guy.

No, I agree. I do not think the developers intended to make any of them irritating opponents and I do not think there was anything racist in the decisions. As TMIT pointed out, Shaka is a very dangerous AI.

Sitting Bull wound up being irritating and annoying, but that's just how his various attributes come out. He isn't really dangerous, but he's hard to get rid of early and the business of constantly dumping in your water supply does annoy me.

BTW - Hobbes is great!

 

[Kruelgor]

The term 'racist' is such a vague and obscure word. I think it's more of a 'thought police' word than anything else with the intention of making it illegal to even acknowledge the existence of different races and their differences. The thought police or PC (politically correct) police are the vultures who look for anything even the slightest opportunity to nail someone for 'racism'. There is a lot of genuine truth behind many facts related to racial differences which is forbidden by the thought police.

 

[millahnna]

Well the different races aren't really all that different. What few medical differences there are are more akin to differences in familial groups than anything else given that, technically speaking, race is a completely made up concept. In fact, you'll often see the same types of differences between regional ethnic groups of the same "race" (say people decedent of the various tribes that eventually became Europe for example).

I mean hey, every single person on this planet has the genetic markers for originating from Africa and we're all pink on the inside, regardless of how much melanin our skin produces. These things are scientific fact.

God is clearly racist, which is why He made my race better than yours.

Lol. I love this. "My imaginary sky father judges his creations based on an imaginary concept." Too funny.

 

[Barokk]

[...] I take the point about some civilisations being more advanced than others, but to imply those that haven't urbanised themselves to any massive degree are backwards and worthy of the label 'barbarian' which implies bloodthirsty, smelly, uneducated warmonger is just wrong and historically innaccurate (even if it is for convenience). Also, aren't we supposed to be rewriting history here? Maybe calling it racist is a bit harsh because I enjoy this game as much as the next person, but I think it bears thinking about, even if for just a second.

I agree. I always look upon the label 'barbarian' as one given by the civilization powers. As with everything, labels are subjective to the one doing the labeling.

Edit: As such it's historical correct for the most part.

 

[Tristan_C]

The civilized people cower behind their walls. Simpering bromides about fairness, they try to build Society.

The barbarians built Man.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I mean hey, every single person on this planet has the genetic markers for originating from Africa and we're all pink on the inside, regardless of how much melanin our skin produces. These things are scientific fact.

Well said. I like to think that the basic scientific fact is that we are all human.

 

[millahnna]

Word up sister.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Well the different races aren't really all that different. What few medical differences there are are more akin to differences in familial groups than anything else given that, technically speaking, race is a completely made up concept. In fact, you'll often see the same types of differences between regional ethnic groups of the same "race" (say people decedent of the various tribes that eventually became Europe for example).

I mean hey, every single person on this planet has the genetic markers for originating from Africa and we're all pink on the inside, regardless of how much melanin our skin produces. These things are scientific fact.



Lol. I love this. "My imaginary sky father judges his creations based on an imaginary concept." Too funny.

It's scary when such a nonsense argument is used to control people, however .

Any variance between different "races" is miniscule compared to individual variance within any group.

As for civ, there isn't much evidence of racism at all, unless you come up with some kind of convoluted non-definition...which people often do to argue points. My personal favorite on other forums is "I define a noob tactic as X personally, so if you do that, you are a noob even if you win".

 

[Lone Wolf]

As for civ, there isn't much evidence of racism at all, unless you come up with some kind of convoluted non-definition...which people often do to argue points.

Tokugawa AI is stupid!

This game is racist against Japanese!

 

[CHEESE!]

Personally, I would consider the Central/Andean Native Americans civilized by our standards, but as TERRA IS NOT EARTH I believe that Barbarians (remember we have goody huts representing friendly tribes) covering the new world is perfectly fine for Civ.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Tokugawa AI is stupid!

This game is racist against Japanese!

. That's one of my favorites! Racism...against a country!

So true .

 

[Dr.Null]

God is clearly racist, which is why He made my race better than yours.

Lol. I love this. "My imaginary sky father judges his creations based on an imaginary concept." Too funny.

Thanks. I'm especially proud of that one because it makes no sense on about five different levels, yet I'm sure it'll make someone out there angry.

 

[abj9562]

This is a game. We have enough problems in the world without getting offensive and defensive about the "supposed" intent of A Terra map.

 

[blasto]

My 2 cents..

The romans first coined the term barbarian to describe early German tribes and afterwards, all "uncivilized" groups.

But what I haven't seen anyone mention is the particular names I have seen for barbarian cities... I'm not at my PC right now to check for more, but two that I remember were named "Aryan" and another "Libya”. So the developers I think are true to the modern definition of barbarians by using diverse examples of rogue groups.

To anyone who is offended by anything in this game, they must live their life just looking for things to complain about. These people contribute nothing to society, so of course they'll be pissed that the very word exists because it means they have to acknowledge that they have been set apart in society.

So just stop breathing please or get your head out.

 

[Dumanios]

If I am to summarize this thread then it would be:

Person A:

Crowd of users:

Is that right?