Terrain "core combat" promotions

[Pragmatic]

Someone in the "I got the strategy guide" discussion mentioned that, in comparison to Civ 4's "Combat I-VI," with their always-active "+10% to combat strength," Civ 5's "Accuracy/Barrage/Drill/Shock I-III" are pretty all-or-nothing. They provide a bonus... if the enemy is in the right kind of terrain. A supposedly veteran unit will suddenly fight as poorly as a green unit, if outside their preferred terrain.

So I made two suggestions:

Using Shock as the basis...

1) Shock I/II/III is currently +20%/+20%/+25% when fighting in open terrain. How about adding +5%/+5%/+10% when fighting in rough terrain? (+65% in open terrain, +20% in rough terrain)

2) Rather than adding extra percentages, how about taking them from the base percentages? E.g., +15%/+15%/+15% in open terrain, +5%/+5%/+10% in rough terrain. (+45% in open terrain, +20% in rough terrain)

I lean towards the first option, but this is just a "top of the head" suggestion. Otherwise, we could just leave them as they are, and get Shock I-II and Drill I (+40% in open terrain, +20% in rough terrain) without altering anything.

 

[Schuesseled]

you could add a new promotion, which gives part of of shock and and part of drill.

So you'd have:

Drill I - 20% in rough terrain
Shock I - 20% in open terrain
Readiness I - 10% in open, 10% in rough.

Do a similar thing for ranged.

With naval do the same thing for naval/land shooting

Personally i'd leave air units, buit you could do a general promotion for that too.

 

[Seven05]

I think you should see how it actually works in the game before jumping to the conclusion that it's a bad thing.

Since 'rough' and 'open' are the differences it isn't as severe as you make it out to be. Not like to would be if it was divided into terrain types like 'grassland, desert, tundra' and since rough includes hills, forests and jungles it is already substantially more valuable than Civ 4's more specific guerilla & woodsman promotions.

Since Shock I & Drill I provide a 20% bonus the total bonus of Combat II (+20% strength everywhere) is identical. I takes two promotions to get the same bonus in all terrain types. The difference being that future promotions that require Shock II or Drill II require more specialization than one that would require Combat II, or they require more promotions to reach the point where all future promotions are unlocked. This will diversify units, you'll have the 'jack of all trades' units with equal bonuses on all terrains but none of the more advanced promotions and you'll have specialized units with more advanced promotions.

Giving the opposing bonus at half strength to both promotions sounds like it will just water them down. If Shock gave you a bonus in open terrain AND rough terrain (albiet half the bonus) why would you ever take Drill once you reach the point where the majotiy of the forest & jungle tiles have been cleared?

I guess the biggest question is why do you assume your veteran unit will suddenly have no bonus? If your unit has only one promotion (say Shock I) they really aren't veteran, just no longer green. They will still receive terrain bonus while defending in rough terrain but they'll be at a disadvantage attacking into rough terrain. Once they have a few more promotions it's likely they aren't ALL Shock promotions in which case they will still have advantages over other units even in unfavorable terrain.

My guess is that you're going to see Shock used more than Drill since the Shock promotion can negate the defensive penalty for open terrain and you'll want it on your attacking units to negate their own Shock promotion so you can maintain the upper hand. Drill will likely be best for a limited number of units, either those defending key choke points or those intended to be used to break through units defending rough terrain. Having to make the choice between the two is part of your overall strategy and removing or reducing the severity of that choice doesn't sound like a good idea.