Terrain defensive bonuses when attacking cities

[mdesy]

Greetings fellow Civs! First post here even though I have over 130 hours of Civ IV gameplay registered on my steam account. Very addictive game, so complex with so many ways to play, the funniest being merciless back-stabbing wars.

I have two specific questions, I'm trying to understand the mechanics of terrain defense bonuses when attacking:

1. Imagine a scenario where I'm doing an early attack to a city protected by 3 fortified archers on a flat terrain, surrounded by forest tiles. I have a stack of 6 swordmen, 3 with city raider promotion and 3 with forest defense promotion. I move them all to a forest tile right next to the city, ready for the attack. When I attack, my swordmen move to the city tile to fight. At this point do I benefit from the forest tile defense bonus or is there no bonus at all because the fight happens on the city tile? Is the forest defense promotion worthless in that case?

2. Imagine the same scenario as above except that before attacking I fortify my swordmen until the full defensive bonus is reached. When I move to attack, does the fortified bonus still applies or is it lost as soon as I move?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Macksideshow]

1) Forest defense bonuses only apply when your unit is being attacked (and it is in a forest/jungle tile). Defense bonuses don't apply when attacking so yes, it is worthless when attacking a city.

2) Fortify bonus is also a defensive bonus so again, it has no use when attacking and you lose it as soon as you move.

Hope that helps and you continue to enjoy CIV and post here, welcome to the forums

 

[Seraiel]

When a unit attacks, the fight takes place on the tile that is attacked, not the tile on which the attacker is

 

[mdesy]

Ah yes that's what I suspected, thanks for the reply! I made an early rush with 6 swordmen against 3 archers but ended up being defeated, I was not expecting that! The city was not even on a hill.

That gives me an idea however, instead of attacking I should have fortified all my swordmen around that city so that any archer, settler or worker that wants to go out of the capital would stand no chance, ah!. Now I need to try it!

 

[Seraiel]

2 Sworda for 1 Archer usually works, bur sometimes, CIV RNG is just idiotic.

 

[Seraiel]

Or were those Archers Longbowmen?

 

[mdesy]

Definitely archers, I wanted to make an early rush test with a quick game on a small duel map. That failed miserably my swordmen were falling down like dead flies and for the few that survived, by the time they were healed there was more archers. Actually I think I had 5 swordmen and 1 axeman. I believe this strategy could have worked on a normal or epic game but on a quick game the AI was building archers too quickly.

 

[Macksideshow]

City Raider promos make a big difference. I usually send axes vs archers and use the formula #archers*2 +1, the +1 is upgraded combat I -> Shock as stack defense

 

[mdesy]

Yes now I realize those forest defense promotions were a waste, it could have been a different story if all of them had city raider.

Is there any way I can add extra defense while attacking a city? I remember someone suggesting having a worker build a fort in ennemy territory right next to the city, but I guess that wouldn't not add any defense while attacking?

 

[Pangaea]

Why do you want defense when you're attacking? As long as you park your troops in a forest outside the city, that is usually enough. The AI doesn't attack your units all that often anyway, unless they have loads of units in the city, or sometimes if they have siege.

That's another key aspect about attacking cities btw. Use siege, and lots of them. Attack with siege first, to injure the defenders. Then mop up.

 

[Seraiel]

Yes now I realize those forest defense promotions were a waste, it could have been a different story if all of them had city raider.

Is there any way I can add extra defense while attacking a city? I remember someone suggesting having a worker build a fort in ennemy territory right next to the city, but I guess that wouldn't not add any defense while attacking?

You should forget everything you read on other sites, and you should judge everything drom this site with care, if its 5y or older. This is definitely the best site for CIV, but some things simply changed over time. Always best when you ask.

Welcome to thw fanatics site btw.. Here are many people, who play single games that are longer than your whole CIV experience .

 

[mdesy]

Why do you want defense when you're attacking? As long as you park your troops in a forest outside the city, that is usually enough. The AI doesn't attack your units all that often anyway, unless they have loads of units in the city, or sometimes if they have siege.

That's another key aspect about attacking cities btw. Use siege, and lots of them. Attack with siege first, to injure the defenders. Then mop up.

For me it has always been unclear whether we can also have defensive bonuses while attacking instead of only while defending, but now it's clear thank to you guys!

I always use catapults/cannon/artillery to reduce the city defense to 0 + inflict collateral damage before attacking but in this case it was an early rush, no construction tech yet.

 

[mdesy]

You should forget everything you read on other sites, and you should judge everything drom this site with care, if its 5y or older. This is definitely the best site for CIV, but some things simply changed over time. Always best when you ask.

Welcome to thw fanatics site btw.. Here are many people, who play single games that are longer than your whole CIV experience .

You're right, I read a lot of articles on the site and that helped but the most fun is to experiment new things by yourself.

I have to say CIV IV is the most addicting game I have played so far. I like to play marathon games to fully enjoy all units and when I finish a game, I can't help but start another one. I'm just never tired of it, it's such a well crafted, complex game with outstanding replay value, every game is different.

Thanks guys and see you around the forum!

 

[Seraiel]

CIV definitely is the ultimate game together with DAoC. I'm playing CIV since 3.5y already, and I'm still motivated to play, especially because of the competition in HoF and GOTM. I've also studied this game like only the fewest have, still I learn new things almost everyday.

The CIV War Academy is shortly before being updated to todays playstyles, it'll help you immensly, once I have sorted out the obsolete articles and get the new ones in there.

Best way, if you want to learn is posting a game in S&T. If you play ver short turnsets, like only 20 and then ask for advice, you can become an Immortal player in 1 month. People here are very helpful, and if 20T and then wait some hours is to little time spent on playing, simply play another game in between.

 

[mdesy]

Good suggestion I certainly will try that to hopefully upskill a little faster. After a few months now I'm still playing on Noble but most of the time I play to experiment new strategies.

I have to admit, Civ IV was my first introduction to the series and after my first game I thought it was garbage... but I had the feeling I was missing the point of the game. It was on the easiest difficulty level and I automated everything, building/researching whatever was suggested by the popup dialogs.

Then after reading a post on this forum I jumped directly to Noble and started to micro manage everything, no more automation full stop. What a difference, after that I started to understand the complexity of the game and fully enjoyed every turn. My only complaint was that the normal mode was too short so I tried Epic, still too short. Marathon is my favorite especially when I intend to play a war intensive game!

The problem when playing Civ is time, it's difficult to stop playing and you need a lot of patience to wait until you have some spare time. All right I'm getting way off topic now, thanks again for the tips!

 

[Seraiel]

You'll see, the better you get, the better You'll be able to tackle higher speeds. Marathon imo still brings the nost fun, but not everybod likes to need 20T for Mining .

As said, posting a game can get you from Noble to Immortal in 1 month if you make an effort. Look at the “improving on Monarch“ thread in S&T, it's from one player ne and others are currently pushing up the levels. Coul be very interesting for you too, and then you'll see what you can expect when you post a game.

Plz don't post any game below Monarch though, because all those can be won wirh Warriors until 1500 BC. Monarch is about the first level where the AIs aren't total pushovers.

 

[mdesy]

Next game I jump directly to Monarch and after 20 turns I will post in the "Improving on Monarch level" forums. Do you guys only post screenshots or is it better to post a save state?

 

[Seraiel]

Best is, if you make all information others could need via Screenshots + attach a save at the end. Toselotti could get even more and better advice, if he posted more screens. Usually the players on CFC are ver willing to share their knowledge, if the information of the person who's asking is available easy.

Good screens are always:

Every city
Techtrade-screen
Resource-trade-screen
Demographics
Diplomatic-Glance
Possible bribes (foreign advisor)
High altitude complete empire screen with resource bubbles on

Hope I didn't forget any important one.

 

[6K Man]

Is there any way I can add extra defense while attacking a city? I remember someone suggesting having a worker build a fort in ennemy territory right next to the city, but I guess that wouldn't not add any defense while attacking?

Attack from forested hills if possible, if your units get terrain bonuses to defense. Note that this will not help you when you attack, but it will help against AI counterattacks.

Building a fort next to an AI city was a great tactic in Civ2, but I don't think it's possible in Civ4.

 

[2pt0]

I always use catapults/cannon/artillery to reduce the city defense to 0 + inflict collateral damage before attacking but in this case it was an early rush, no construction tech yet.

There have been a couple people on this site that have mentioned that they no longer bombard a city before attacking it. I have played around with it some, and it makes some sense.

Instead of wasting turns on bombardment, just to turn around and use the suicide siege weapons, skip the bombardment and attack with the siege weapons.

+60% defensive bonus on a unit with 1.2 health isn't as great as +60% bonus on an 8 strength unit.