Terrorism in BTS??
- Thread starter Luso
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There are many examples of terrorists toppling a govt. Can either be because the govt is stupid like the Spanish who blamed the wrong terrorist group and lost an election, or be more overt, like in Palestine (Jewish terror groups in the 1930s and 1940s) or more recently the Kurds in Iraq or in South Africa with the ANC. Depending on what the goals of terrorism are, they can influence govt and the political process to remove particular political figures, or be such dumbasses in their response to terrorism, like in Spain or increasingly in the US, that voters boot them out.
Civilizations already have the capacity to inflict damage on other civs without going to war. Through spies. If terrorism is just going to be a random event then "Terrorists bombed our Stock Exchange in Timbuktu!" is going to be no different than "A fire burned down our Stock Exchange in Timbuktu!".
It might as well be
"Joe Blow has invented a time machine and has used it to go back in time to kill the grandfather of a guy who pissed him off at the local bar. Unfortunately, said grandfather was the one who initially came up with the idea to found a Stock Exchange in Timbuktu. Thus the whole incident has left a gaping plot hole where the Stock Exchange used to be."
My point is that new features shouldn't be added if they don't actually add anything to the game. Besides, i don't like the idea of random events. I want events to be a part of the game, a thing you can influence rather than just a text box explaining why you suddenly got +1 commerce in the plains next to Delhi or one giving you three varieties of bad things that you can choose from.
It might as well be
"Joe Blow has invented a time machine and has used it to go back in time to kill the grandfather of a guy who pissed him off at the local bar. Unfortunately, said grandfather was the one who initially came up with the idea to found a Stock Exchange in Timbuktu. Thus the whole incident has left a gaping plot hole where the Stock Exchange used to be."
My point is that new features shouldn't be added if they don't actually add anything to the game. Besides, i don't like the idea of random events. I want events to be a part of the game, a thing you can influence rather than just a text box explaining why you suddenly got +1 commerce in the plains next to Delhi or one giving you three varieties of bad things that you can choose from.
Sovetskysoyuz
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2007
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- 36
Austria was just looking for an excuse to kick the cr*p out of Serbia and solidify their empire. They and the Germans were actually convinced that the alliance system would prevent the situation from exploding (Germany's declared support for Austria was supposed to keep Russia from getting too worked up, and Wilhelm thought his personal telegrams to his cousin Nicky could defuse the entire situation. The real cause was 'let's conquer the world!' German generals insisting that they had the perfect moment to destroy the French (again) and pressure the English out of the naval race... which was the major reason that Britain and Germany didn't get along all that well in the leadup to the war. Then the generals told Wilhelm that mobilization couldn't be cancelled after a certain point, even though he asked them to stop. And then there was the part about the Chief of Staff refusing a direct order to call off the invasion of Luxembourg.
Talk about lousy diplomacy on Germany's part.
-Bismarck has logged off-
willy12: uk haz fleet!! my mother r englsh!!! i wnt a fleet toooo!! + colonies! I WANTS COLONIES!!!!!1!!!one!
UK: Hmm... Seems our little fellow in Germany is poised to overtake our position as rulers of the ocean. What say you France, oh age-old archenemy? Ally?
France: Sure thing England!
willy12: i has fleet!
France: What about you Russia? Should we declare ourselves to be allies in an Entente so that we might strike down on Germany from two fronts.
Russia: Fair enough!
OldRottingAustria: Hey! What about me? I'm standing knee deep in the powder keg of Europe with no friends and an obsolete army.
willy12: lol ill be ur frnd! we = strong
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Personally I would like hidden nationality land units (which many mods already have) to be able to raze cities but not capture them. It would also be nice if there was a small chance that an HN units' nationality would be discovered, much like how a spy is caught. That would mean WAR, in which you are considered the aggressor . In a less severe version, leaders should suspect a rival of using HN units, leading to a diplomatic penalty for each suspected action. The second case could correspond to a spy being caught, the first to it being caught and its nationality being discovered. It would be nice if their suspicions were occasionally wrong; if you made a point of entering their lands through another civs territory without attacking the other civ than they would think that that civ is the aggressor.
Chiyochan
King
I hope you dont mean hitler, because he wasnt german
In any case terrorism is a load of crap, I know there are hard feelings about WTC, but in all freaking honesty, they knocked down 2 buildings, and had minimal collateral, America has way more than 2 buildings guys, If we would have ignored them, then america wouldnt be . .. .. .. .ed like it is now[/IMO]
I pretty much vote no for terrorism, I want something better.
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
Guerrilla warfare would be great to model, IMO. That describes what happened in Palestine and Iraq -- and also what happened in Vietnam, Cuba, and China. But that's different from terrorism. There, the "terrorists" are actually from one's own nation, with popular support from a large number of citizens. Guerrilla warfare has had a huge impact -- whether you lump it in with terrorism or not.
aman2192
Fade To Black
If you honestly think they just knocked down two buildings then I can honestly tell you that you have no soul...
Zetetic Apparat
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2006
- Messages
- 276
Mainly considering just the attacks involving two aircraft being flown into the World Trader Center:
~2,800 fatalities. A small number on a city-wide scale.
30% of Office space in Lower Manhattan at least temporarily made unavailable. Made less significant on a city-wide scale due to other areas 'soaking up' the loss of floor space.
U.S. stocks lose $1.2 trillion worth of value over the next week. I contend that this is primarily due to actual loss of worth in the companies involved but rather a loss in confidence. That is, a product of the terror not the actual damage. And whether this did any real economic damage to the U.S. economy in the long-term (compared to other effects) is highly debatable I would have thought.
Nothing. That sounds cold because, in a sense, it certainly is. But in material Civ terms, that's absolutely nothing. Terrorism is hard to model in-game because its main concern is with terror, not with actual damage to infrastructure and so-on. That people become scared that it's a real, serious and important risk to their day-to-day well-being compared with lung cancer or traffic accidents or personal and national debt, and that people become emotional about the deaths of the victims. Unhappiness, I guess that terror attacks occur.
Personally, I don't how perpetrating or simply 'occuring' acts of terrorism should occur, if more than the current espionage system. For terrorism to become acceptable is mainly a viewpoint shift; that everyone in a country or a culture is responsible enough for that country or culture's shortcomings to be punished by death for it. Well, we bombed factories staffed by civilians in many wars. And if I am not actively working against a system, then I am partially condoning it. It's silly to pretend that any line between combatant and civilian is truly clear or truly respected by any form of military. Everything is really a mess when you try to analyse it.
(Apologies for stilted writing. Factor of running on caffeine...)
Ninja Edit: For the record, I am fairly certain that I have no soul or even that I'm some sort of quantum randomness-amplifier. I'm deterministic but that doesn't mean that I'm not humane. It is bad that people get killed who aren't choosing to place themselves in a firing line.
~2,800 fatalities. A small number on a city-wide scale.
30% of Office space in Lower Manhattan at least temporarily made unavailable. Made less significant on a city-wide scale due to other areas 'soaking up' the loss of floor space.
U.S. stocks lose $1.2 trillion worth of value over the next week. I contend that this is primarily due to actual loss of worth in the companies involved but rather a loss in confidence. That is, a product of the terror not the actual damage. And whether this did any real economic damage to the U.S. economy in the long-term (compared to other effects) is highly debatable I would have thought.
Nothing. That sounds cold because, in a sense, it certainly is. But in material Civ terms, that's absolutely nothing. Terrorism is hard to model in-game because its main concern is with terror, not with actual damage to infrastructure and so-on. That people become scared that it's a real, serious and important risk to their day-to-day well-being compared with lung cancer or traffic accidents or personal and national debt, and that people become emotional about the deaths of the victims. Unhappiness, I guess that terror attacks occur.
Personally, I don't how perpetrating or simply 'occuring' acts of terrorism should occur, if more than the current espionage system. For terrorism to become acceptable is mainly a viewpoint shift; that everyone in a country or a culture is responsible enough for that country or culture's shortcomings to be punished by death for it. Well, we bombed factories staffed by civilians in many wars. And if I am not actively working against a system, then I am partially condoning it. It's silly to pretend that any line between combatant and civilian is truly clear or truly respected by any form of military. Everything is really a mess when you try to analyse it.
(Apologies for stilted writing. Factor of running on caffeine...)
Ninja Edit: For the record, I am fairly certain that I have no soul or even that I'm some sort of quantum randomness-amplifier. I'm deterministic but that doesn't mean that I'm not humane. It is bad that people get killed who aren't choosing to place themselves in a firing line.
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Moderator Action: We don't allow the use of vulgar language. If you see that the autocensor has kicked in, that should be a sign there's something wrong with your posts. Don't use alternate characters to bypass it either, as all that does is tells me is you knew your statement was against the rules and you were merely trying to bypass them.
If you aren't sure what the rules are, than I suggest you read the [rules]forum rules[/rules].
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