TGOM 02 - The Grumpy Old Monk and the Ancient Crone go to Alpha Centauri

[Bede]

Couple of thoughts:

Move the wine city 1SE to the flat. It is still a one move from the city on the coast but it gets both iron and wine.

Town east of Bedeville should go 1SE as well to have the game forest. Gets that benefit that much faster.

Since the oppostion is to our south and east I would settle in that direction first, though the first ring northerly towns are too juicy to ignore, though we might be able to spin a settler or three for the northwest out of Bedeville at pop 6-7, and keep sending settlers from Salamanca to the southeast.

 

[gmaharriet]

Since the oppostion is to our south and east I would settle in that direction first, though the first ring northerly towns are too juicy to ignore, though we might be able to spin a settler or three for the northwest out of Bedeville at pop 6-7, and keep sending settlers from Salamanca to the southeast.

I studied the map, and my thought is this:

Settle east by the iron (eo's orange town), but agree about moving it 1 SE to grab the game. I would send the settler (due in 4) to Bedeville. The archer there is due in 5 and can clear the barb from the area (if he's still standing in the same place) just ahead of the settler.

Had thought eo's yellow town next, but that is north, so in keeping with Bede's suggestion, the next would be eo's green town on the hill. I think my turns will be up before then, so that decision can be made later. It will take 7(?) turns for the setter and next archer to complete, then another 4 for the next settler.

Do we want a 2nd curragh in Harriet Bay? I'll check back before deciding the build there. Continue with another archer in Bedeville? Regular warrior in new town or regular archer? My impulse is to build another worker, but I suppose there's too many barbs around for that.

I'll wait a bit to start playing for any more input.

 

[eotinb]

Plan sounds solid to me. I'd say go ahead with another curragh -- the more contacts the better, right?

By the way, feel free to call me Brad. Took me a while to figure out what "eo's ____" meant.

 

[gmaharriet]

Thanks, Brad. You can call me Harriet, gma or Grandma (which is what the gma stands for. I answer to Harry as well.

I played 2 turns, changed the build to another curragh pending further input here. I also stopped because, as usual, I have another question.

Blue feather is trapped on the coast between Egypt and Babylon with no clear path home (Cleo forcibly moved him, since he was standing right next to Thebes.) I honestly don't know if I can get him out of there without Hammi putting him right back. I often disband a warrior at this point, but maybe that's a noob way of handling it. Here's a screenie.

Wonder if we can keep this game going as long as GK2. Whadda ya think, Bede? Anyway, I'm getting too tired to play anymore tonight. *sigh*

 

[soul_warrior]

harriet, noticed you have some PC issues with the pics.
you can use this http://sourceforge.net/projects/screenassist
its a great small applic for screen shots.
you can edit the pics later after you finish your Civ Fix.

 

[eotinb]

In similar situaitions, I have sometimes managed to get my guy out by jumping back and forth between the two territories. I would go N, NW, N, NW. As long as you get warnings before you get forcibly ejected, you should make it.

 

[CivFan91]

lurker's comment: *looks at pic* You know, you could go N, NW, and NW. Then, when Hammi ejects you, you'll go, as the manual says, to the nearest open square. Taking my advice, you will be on the mined square, and the nearest open square will be just north of Nineveh. From what I see, this'll work by only ticking off one leader instead of both.

Good luck to you guys!

 

[gmaharriet]

harriet, noticed you have some PC issues with the pics.
you can use this http://sourceforge.net/projects/screenassist
its a great small applic for screen shots.
you can edit the pics later after you finish your Civ Fix.

Thanks, SW! I'm currently using ScreenPrint32, but this is my first opportunity to use it for board posts and I think my problems are in using Paint after I capture a shot. Does your program eliminate the need for Paint? Can it make "round" dots on a map?

 

[eotinb]

By the way, IrfanView is a nice free program that will allow you to view images of every format (maybe there are some that it can't open, but I've never come across one), save to multiple formats, and do basic image editing, such as cropping (which is pretty handy in manipulating screenshots). I don't think it will allow you to make circles of any kind, however. To make those I used the oval feature in MS Paint -- but honestly, no one cares if your dots are round or not, Granny.

 

[gmaharriet]

Thanks, Brad!

I'll finish my turns when I get home from work tonight if I see no further comments here.

 

[CivFan91]

lurker's comment: Sorry for the long errors, I figured it out. Works perfectly now. I'll delete the errors.

Can't wait to be a part of the next game here...

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: to save that warrior, go N, then NW,and when hammy asks to leave, go to cleo, then on the free square.

 

[CivFan91]

@AnsarKing: Only problem I have with that is you tick off TWO leaders instead of one. I always am nice to as many of them as possible, so I feel less guilty when I kill them off. My post is similar, but as I said, only upsets Hammi. I do this especially since Egypt always harasses me with War Chariots, even if I am superior. I hate long wars (though I love wars ) Hammi, after all, isn't all that much of a fighter with me anyway. Maybe it's karma.

Do this:

 

[Bede]

As long as the new town has a near by trooper for garrison or barb suppression the first build should be a worker, with exceptions for coastal towns which build boats first. Unless somebody disturbs the goody huts they will remain quiet little villages. If you feel you have enough troopers around to deal with three wandering barbarians go ahead and start busting huts in the neighborhood.

As far as saving the warrior or disbanding, keep him scouting until he starts costing unit support then think about disbanding. You can encroach on the other guy as much as you like, it doesn't really matter whether it annoys them or not. A dozen Mounties on their borders fixes their attitude real quick.

 

[CivFan91]

lurker's comment: That'll work just as well, I suppose. I was unsure of your military position, so I suggested an easy method. If you are superior, and nearby, then I'd do that. If the Warrior was 20 tiles from home, I'd do what I said last post.

 

[cleverhandle]

Had thought eo's yellow town next, but that is north, so in keeping with Bede's suggestion, the next would be eo's green town on the hill.

I would build yellow first - I believe this was Bede's comment about the northlands being "juicy." It's not quite in the ideal direction, but it's the best land and we seem to have a fair amount of time before anyone else reaches us. After yellow, I'd do green (hills SE of Salamanca) and then purple (near sugar S of Salamanca). This will provide a nice productive core for any further efforts.

It would be great to get the wine hooked much earlier, but with it so far away I don't see how that's possible. Keep those MP's coming, and use any corrupt edge cities to produce workers (since lux tax is less efficient there). It might also be worth sending a spare archer up to the north to clear barb camps for cash and to finish scouting - it looks cold, but we might find some spices or furs there.

I don't see the iron as much of a problem. We'll have at least the source near Bedeville one way or another. And we'll probably also grab the northern source since we'll want the nearby wines. That's plenty for us - playing denial games is nice, but not worth sacrificing a strong core and intelligent growth.

 

[gmaharriet]

Sorry, clever. I checked in here an hour before you posted, so I built east. I'd really hoped to complete my 10 without having my hand held every turn, but at turn 8 we now have Republic with many decisions to make. We can revolt, change research and/or builds, and only have one new settlement. I'm going to post what I have so far for discussion. It took me 3 hours to play the last 6 turns, so I'm definitely ready for a break.

Preturn - 1500 bc Everything looks to be in order (following Bede, how else could it be?)
Notice Blue Feather standing right next to Thebes and wonder what Cleo will have to say about that. Hit enter.

IT Barb suicides on our northern archer. Egyptians are building The Oracle and The Pyramids.

1. 1475 - Archer moves N and sees barb camp to the west. Red Feather goes N, Blue goes S and sees more of Thebes.

IT Cleo complains about Blue Feather's trespassing. We apologize and he will be automatically moved. Barb near Bedeville is killed by Egyptian warrior. Another barb appears NW of Bedeville and a barb galley shows up next to northern barb camp.

2. 1450 Harriet Bay curragh -> curragh. Northern archer moves W toward barb camp. Red Feather N. Blue Feather can only move 1 tile to southern coast wedged between Egypt and Babylon. He can't go anywhere without trespassing.

IT Barb moves toward workers.

3. 1425 - Cover worker with warrior from Bedeville. Curragh SW,SW spots incense. Red & Blue Feathers each go N. Northern archer moves W to barb camp and sees another barb galley N of the 1st one.

IT Barb near Bedeville kills first our warrior and then our worker! Barb horse emerges from barb camp and killed by archer, 2nd barb horse the same and our archer promotes to elite.

4. 1400 Salamanca settler -> archer. Bedeville archer->archer. Fortify archer by barb camp. Bedeville archer kills redlined barb. Send settler to Bedeville for archer to catch up with him next turn as the archer is in the wrong position to lead the way atm.

Curragh W,NW and unless there is a very tiny channel in the fog, it appears we are on a large inland lake. 2nd curragh due in 3 and may change to worker if there's nowhere for it to sail.

Red & Blue Feathers each NW. We need another worker urgently, but it seems pointless to build one in Bedeville as there would be nothing to protect it, so leave set to archer build. Maybe should be a vet warrior because faster build? I dunno. Lower lux to 10%. Philo in 5.

IT Hammi is annoyed at Blue Feather's incursion and we apologize.

5. 1375 - Move archer to Bedeville and, having crossed the river, must fortify with settler. Curragh NW,W and our hope for a channel is gone, so change Harriet Bay to worker in 1. Red Feather SW. Blue Feather NW.

IT Hammi moves Blue Feather. Babs are building TofA.

6. 1350 - Send archer/settler E toward their new home, leaving Bedeville undefended. Worker completes forest road. Send him to work the previously roaded BG near Bedeville, as there was nowhere else to move him in 1 except another forest, and Harriet Bay's worker is due next turn. Red Feather SW and Blue N along Thebe's border.

Alex has Maths, as well as CB, but will not trade it for anything.

IT Alex offers CB for CoL, but no thank you. Another barb horseman suicides on our archer. How many barbs can there be in one hut??? Harriet Bay worker -> Barracks due in 14. We need vet defenders, but next player can change this.

7. 1325 MM Salamanca to growth from 5 to 4 by using unworked sugar with archer still in 1. Archer/Settler E. Curragh N,N. Harriet Bay worker to roaded forest to speed barracks. Salamanca worker mines. Red Feather W, Blue N to see more Egyptian border.

IT Salamanca Archer -> Settler. Bedeville Archer -> Archer.

8. 1300 - Egypt & Babs both have MM, and will both trade for all our gold (250) and 8gpt. Ha, ha! We have nowhere to sail to atm, so no. Alex will now trade math for Col, 250 gold and 6gpt, but we would be bankrupt, so no. Philo in 1 and lower science to 50%.

Move Archer/Settler NE into settlement position. Fortify new archer in Salamanca, since most barbs are coming from the N and our next settler will likely be moving SE...he can go whichever direction he is needed.

Red Feather S and is next to barb camp. Blue Feather W to mountain and is almost surrounded by Egypt/Babs yet again...think I can sneak him away through a corner. Curragh S,S. Harriet Bay worker begins chop.

IT Philo comes in and, ta da! Republic is ours. Set for HBR for our UU in 6. Settle Mayhem City and set for worker in 5, but this can be changed. Curragh S,S toward a chance to peek at a hidden bay. Red Feather decides to leave barb hut to a stronger unit and goes S, Blue Feather W.

And I think it's time for team discussion of what comes next. We haven't discussed next research objective, whether or not to revolt immediately, but our economy is not well developed for that, and several builds could be changed.

It may be premature to post all these pics, but I think the team needs a clear picture of what's happening.

Northern Barbs

Southeastern Barb Camp

Our Empire

Southern Civs

 

[General Mayhem]

Wow, nice lake. What about sometime in the near future planting a settler either on or near the incense SW of Harriet Bay, and then backfilling? If we can do this we "should" be able to grab 3 luxes and actually be able to take advantage of markets when they become avaliable. Personally I would let the settler in Salamanca and HBR complete, then revolt to Republic. Trading wise I don't know what's avaliable, but I would try to hang on to Republic unless there are a ton of tech's avaliable right now.

 

[cleverhandle]

Sorry, clever. I checked in here an hour before you posted, so I built east.

No problem. I don't think it's a life-or-death decision by any means.

This is a very strange map. Tons of space, but few luxes and difficult coastal access. It's going to be an unusual late AA.

IT Philo comes in and, ta da! Republic is ours.

w00t! I was a little worried about whether we'd actually get it or not.

And I think it's time for team discussion of what comes next.

I've got no problem taking some time. I won't be able to play properly until Friday afternoon, being both sick and busy with work (bad trait combo). So if you finish early tomorrow, I may need a skip.

We haven't discussed next research objective

We need to trade first. Babs have CoL, so we need to trade it before Hammi passes it around. Babs and Egypt have MM, but Alex doesn't. Babs have HBR. I'm fairly confident that good trading can net us CB, Myst, HBR, MM, and hopefully Maths without letting go of Republic. After the dust settles, I'd probably go for Literature or Currency, since the AI doesn't usually prioritize them.

whether or not to revolt immediately, but our economy is not well developed for that

Well, looking at the economy tab of CAII will help with that. The answer is "not yet," but we're closer to being profitable than I expected.

 

[gmaharriet]

So if you finish early tomorrow, I may need a skip.

I'm certainly in no rush. I'll probably finish tomorrow night, but I always have tons of questions on various topics, such as barb suppression, build and/or tech strategies, etc. to learn before moving on. I NEVER play with barbs this active, so they are a complete mystery to me at any level. OTOH, if someone else wants to swap with you, that's fine too.

We need to trade first. Babs have CoL, so we need to trade it before Hammi passes it around. Babs and Egypt have MM, but Alex doesn't. Babs have HBR. I'm fairly confident that good trading can net us CB, Myst, HBR, MM, and hopefully Maths without letting go of Republic. After the dust settles, I'd probably go for Literature or Currency, since the AI doesn't usually prioritize them.

I like to go for currency and build markets. Even without the luxes, they seem to improve income in Republic, but Lit may be more valuable for trading at Emperor. I dunno because I've never gotten this far at Emperor.

As for trading, here is CAII's trade option screen.

I also used CAII's tech valuations for a very "rough" estimate of trade values. I know that can change if it's being currently researched by the AI or known by more than 1 civ, etc. But my general plan (with +/- some gold thrown in on either side is to try this:

CoL (240) for Maths (222) from Greece (has 25 gold).
Col (240) and Maths (222) for Map Making (312) from Egypt (has 25 gold).
CoL (240) for HBR (138) and CB (48) from Bab (has no gold).
We would still have monopolies on both Philo and Republic.

I have no idea if the AI's would agree or how it would end up. I'd definitely wait for Bede's comments before I try it. Ya don't get many opportunities for xfers playing at Regent , so I have absolutely no experience at a series of trades this complicated.

Afterthought: I've really gotta figure out how to get smaller screenies with better resolution. I'm using my own Village Photos account, and at the size of the uploads, I may run out of bandwidth quickly. And I'm trying to learn too many new techs at once, so it takes me forever to get anything done. I'm not talking about just the game itself, but the utility/pic/dotmap/turnlog type techs...forever clicking on the wrong program, losing the info, hunting for it again, etc.