TGOM 02 - The Grumpy Old Monk and the Ancient Crone go to Alpha Centauri

[cleverhandle]

I only played 6 turns - I've held on to the game too long already, and RL is going to be intruding again through Friday night, if not the whole weekend. Sorry for the delay in playing.

Executive Summary: Micromanaging, spt breakpoints, pollution, all the really fun stuff I dream about every night.

Pre-Turn - Spend some cash rushing temples in the border towns. Shuffle some units around. Units deployed in safe areas get redeployed to border towns with flip-risk, except for the Elite and Elite* Cavs, which gather by Salamanca so that I can keep track of them. We don't have the troops to cover the required garrison at OtherDyes, so pull the army out of there and park it on the hill next door. Our forces are really pretty thin - we can't even cover our culture garrisons, much less handle any serious attack from Hammi. And Amphibious is not far off. We're currently rated Weak vs. Hammi and Shaka and Average vs. Persia.

270 (1400 AD) - Shaka and Abe kiss and make up. Salamanca Exchange->Worker (we need our core cities, especially the capitol, to be as productive as possible - no specialists there!). Border culture builds complete and switch to Tanks. Bedeville Wall Street->Palace (Internet prebuild). Harriet Bay Bomber->Worker (see above). Eotin Bay Tank->Tank. VValley Tank->Inf. Byblos Court->Tank. Herakleia Harbor->Court. Several Bab towns' borders expand - this will put more pressure on our garrisons. Workers move back to tidy up core towns - we need our core better developed. It doesn't make sense to be spending worker turns clearing jungle in the utterly corrupt edges of the empire when we have first and second ring cities working unoptimized land. Adjust improvements around Bedeville to get it up to 78spt, for now. Argh! What's going on with Clever Springs? It's pushing 48-4 spt but has unworked Flood Plains and Mountains. And it's our Military Academy city! I get some workers on that.

271 - Salamanca Worker->Tank. Salamanca now hits 60spt exactly. Harriet Bay Worker->Dock. Mayhem City Battlefield Medicine->Worker (full granary, at pop limit). Clever Springs Exchange->Army. Smelly Tank->Police (will add a significant science boost and boost production over the 50 spt breakpoint). Continue various worker improvement and occasional joinings around the core. We now have Bedeville at 78spt - a Police Station will take it to the 80spt SS part breakpoint after the Internet is done. Salamanca is at 60spt (2 turn Modern Armor break), and Clever Springs will be there in another couple turns. Mayhem City and VValley are at or above the 50spt break for 2-turn Tanks or Bombers, and Smelly will join them after the Police Station is completed there.

272 - Mayhem City Worker->Airport. EB Infantry->Infantry. Scoutsville Bank->University (see my previous comments about Banks vs. Unis, building a Bank here before a Uni doesn't make sense). Cronetown Tank->Tank. Switch VValley from Tank to Court since the added pop ended the WLTKD and the 50spt, and it will gain us some beakers as well. Pull Waystation citizens off of tiles and make them specialists - the town is not well developed and it's stealing tiles from Eotin Bay and Caughnawaga, both of which are lower rank and better stocked with multipliers. Start gathering extra Tanks near Salamanca - the southern garrisons are now complete - the only ones left are the ones around the Persian town, and the borders will expand there in another turn or two. After some deliberation, I decide to sell our newly hooked Rubber to Xerxes for 51gpt. He'll probably get Rubber from Shaka eventually, so we might as well get his money.

273 - Salamanca Tank->Tank. Owego Factory->Tank. VValley Court->Tank. Napa Bomber->Tank. Tyendenaga Tank->Inf. Lurkersville Hospital->Police (CAII indicates a substantial gain on this one, and it still has room to grow). We're still Weak against Shaka and Hammi. It would be nice to have a spy, but I'm not going to take that risk at the moment. Maybe after we have some MechInfs along with more Tanks.

274 - We learn Computers. Both Hammi and Xerxes are still waiting on Motors. Set research to Mini and adjust specialists - it will arrive in 8 turns (just in time to switch the Palace pre-build) at 100%, +187gpt.

275 (1425 AD) - Shaka, Shaka, Shaka... don't you ever get enough fighting in? Zululand declares on Persia. Salamanca Tank->Tank. Harriet Bay Dock->Worker (+1 fpt issue). Eotin Bay MechInf->Hospital. VValley Tank->Tank. Smelly Police->Tank. Cronetown Tank->Tank.


Comments:

Military: Keep building it. I didn't upgrade any Infs to MechInf's yet, but that would be a good idea - we have over 3000 gold lying around. Once the ground situation feels a bit less hairy, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to build a dozen or so Flak along with some Fighters and some more Bombers. I'd almost bet that Hammi will attack us before we launch, and I'm sure he's building plenty of Bombers right now. Mayhem will finish its Airport soon and can start pumping out vet air units. We could probably use another airport or two in other cities as well. The garrisons around the Persian town still need to be checked for completion.

Tech: We're pretty much on track with the previous discussion. Hammi seems to be broke, but Persia still had a sizable budget, at least before Shaka declared. I'd guess that Persia will finish Motors before we finish Mini. We may want to get a prebuild going for the UN - if we gift up Hammi, he may pick up Fission and trade it around.

Towns: Our production looks a bit better now. I've had huge gangs of workers going city-by-city according to rank and looking for useful tweaks. I got to Owego by my last turn, and by that point we're pretty much through the most potentially productive cities. I would send a couple teams back out to the fringes to start jungle clearing and irrigating now. When Mini comes in, I would consider putting a Platform in Harriet Bay - it's close to 50spt, but not quite there. A Platform there might even be enough to give up a tile to Scoutsville and make that more useful at the same time.


The save is here.

 

[General Mayhem]

Grrr, Shaka finally figured out what the black stuff oozing out of the ground was, and then he decided to give some to Hammi. I think we can say goodbye to Persia, which might be a good opportunity to take out their only city on our continent if they are getting severly torn up by Shaka, but they should keep Shaka tied down research wise until we can launch.

 

[cleverhandle]

Grrr, Shaka finally figured out what the black stuff oozing out of the ground was, and then he decided to give some to Hammi.

Yup. That's going to make any endgame fighting a bit more significant.

I think we can say goodbye to Persia, which might be a good opportunity to take out their only city on our continent if they are getting severly torn up by Shaka...

I think Xerxes will be more useful for his wallet. I tested the waters with a Motors trade over the course of my turns and he still had around 200gpt to offer. When we start trading around Modern Era techs we should be able to rake in some serious cash from him - even if he gets beaten up by Shaka, he'll still run a deficit to pay us. And by the time a 20-turn sale of Mini or Computers runs out we'll be just about ready to launch. Hammi's the one to watch IMO.

...but they should keep Shaka tied down research wise until we can launch.

Shaka's not going to research anything. The only techs he's learned lately have come from us in lux trades. He may have a ton of land, but he never builds infrastructure. And at this stage of the game he doesn't have enough time to gain momentum from sheer landmass.

 

[Bede]

Bede - see what I can do about the trade situation
eotinb - welcome back, and came out swinging
gmharriet - made a castrato out of Alex who is now singing soprano in the cathedral choir
The General - pushed all the right buttons, I think, though I haven't taken that close a look.
cleverhandle - clearly did what was needed.

 

[scoutsout]

Military: Keep building it. <snip> Once the ground situation feels a bit less hairy, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to build a dozen or so Flak along with some Fighters and some more Bombers....

If I may offer a few minor tactical notes on air superiority:

• Flak: For air defense of a city that's getting hammered, the magic number seems to be 4 Flak in the city to get a good shot at clipping enemy bombers. Though a larger number will give you somewhat better odds, you reach the point of dimininishing returns at 4.
• Planes in general, but especially Fighters running air superiority/"control the skies" missions should be placed on airfields next to cities, not in cities themselves. For some odd reason the AI prefer to bomb cities, and will leave an airfield alone...even though bombing runs over parked bombers can be devastating.
• Excellent practice for these tactics can be had in the WWII Pacific Conquest scenario...(Play as America).
• This is just me, but if I only have one or two airports, I've been known to build Regular Bombers. I prefer my fighters to be veteran units. Airports have a shield cost and bring pollution...so I don't build them all over the place. I tend to use airfields for airlifting work.

...back to lurking...

 

[gmaharriet]

If I may offer a few minor tactical notes on air superiority:

I expect those will be very helpful to me. Since I've done most of my late age warring at Regent, I'm used to being the only one having planes. If I don't need to use those ideas in this game, I'm sure I will in another as I've started playing at a higher level on my own now. Thank you!

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

disclaimer: i haven't looked at a save or the map in a long time

disclaimer: i have an idea (see various other threads to find out why this is bad; apologies to scout)

for discussion: what if you build mobile airfields (carriers) and use them to take out the oil supplies of the other civs. Of course you'll need support units like a marine landing force and covering destroyers. Then again I'm

 

[gmaharriet]

disclaimer: i have an idea (see various other threads to find out why this is bad; apologies to scout)

I'm assuming this is at least partly a sorta of "inside joke", meaning scout frequently comes up with unorthodox tactical ideas with can be either very good or go very wrong...and they take team mates by, um, surprise. Just a guess, but am I close?

I love carriers, AK, but wouldn't your idea put us at war with both Hammi and his supplier at the same time? or are you proposing we start one overseas and try to maintain the peace with Hammi? Thanks for the input and we'll see what happens.

 

[scoutsout]

disclaimer: i have an idea (see various other threads to find out why this is bad; apologies to scout)

No apology necessary.

I'm assuming this is at least partly a sorta of "inside joke", meaning scout frequently comes up with unorthodox tactical ideas with can be either very good or go very wrong...and they take team mates by, um, surprise. Just a guess, but am I close?

I wouldn't say 'frequently', but I've come up with a few. "Very good or very wrong" is probably on point. Here are a couple that seemed pretty unorthodox at the time....these'll no doubt take Brother Bede down Memory Lane:

• Giving Joan d'Arc a "Hug" to end a war as a member of The League of Ordinary Gentlemen.
• None other than Brother Bede conducted the first public "Trial by Fire" of some paratrooper tactics when he launched the Airborne Roman Legion... in an SG where a lot of funny things happened on the way to the forum.

There are others ... but that's enough threadjacking for one Saturday.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

my idea wasn't to proactively start anything, but rather to have the carrier offshore to bomb the oil when the AI gets nasty

 

[scoutsout]

my idea wasn't to proactively start anything, but rather to have the carrier offshore to bomb the oil when the AI gets nasty

If I may add to this... Carriers are terrific. I'll usually invest in a couple of them unless I have a specific reason not to. Carriers give the human player something that can be important - options.

@gmaharriet: You are asking the right questions... who would it put you at war with... would it be a wise idea... etc. Having said that... I think AdmK is simply offering a tactical option that you could use - or not. You can always elect not to bomb the overseas oil field...

...but you can't play that card if you don't have it. It's a lot easier to pull a punch than to land one from an awkward position.

 

[gmaharriet]

I appreciate all the comments being made by both of you. Whether they're used in this game or some other later one, they WILL be remembered.

I think it's Bede's turnset right now, and whatever he does always seems to send us off in some unexpected direction. (At least I can never predict what he'll do.) Whatever it is, I'm sure we'll learn from it.

 

[scoutsout]

I think it's Bede's turnset right now, and whatever he does always seems to send us off in some unexpected direction. (At least I can never predict what he'll do.) Whatever it is, I'm sure we'll learn from it.

Don't feel bad about not being able to predict Brother Bede. I'm no good at it either...and we've been through a couple of real zingers together along the way...

...and yes, he's good a good one to learn from. He has a better strategic mind than mine. He'll take this team to an earlier spaceship launch than I could, because I tend to get distracted by all the opportunities to hammer somebody.

 

[Bede]

Unpredictable, they calls me. When I am like the the stars in their constant wanderings about the heavens.

All was more or less in order when I picked up the game. So I Just kept on keeping on, building a better army and planting spies.

Dropped a spy into Babylon cause it seemed to be a good time to do it. Successfully.

Then when X-man got into the Modern Era and learned Ecology did the very same thing and since he didn't want to part with his hard won knowledge went ahead and stole it from him, then got most of the money back (1950g) by selling him better abaci. (I do so love that one turn research cycle).

Sold Hammi Motors on the same turn to see what he would pull and he must have got Computers. 'Cause I was able to relieve him of his treasury for Miniturization. Then I sold those transistors to X-man for some piano keys and small change. Alll of which added up to enough to maintain 100% research and put money in the kitty for stealing again should the opporunity arise.

Ugraded all the infantry and got the southron garrisons filled to capacity and got some more airplanes down there.

Built the Internet right on time and took a full turn off the research towards Rockets. (Gotta know where the Alumium is).

Then decided I really miss Miss Nightingale's Home for Wayward Heiresses (Battlefield Medicine) as I had some trouble setting up the perfecta of Apollo and the Three Spaceship Parts. And I think I only got a Trio instead of a Quartet:

With Space Flight coming due in 9 turns at the current spending rate:

Apollo in Salamanca on the announcement that the research is completed using Big Picture to F1. The Engine in Clever using zoom to city on the announcement of Apollo in Salamanca and arrowing through from Salamanca to Clever Springs, and then the Docking Bay in Scoutsville using the same technique. And if you are really really watchful you can build the Cockpit the very next turn in Bedeville by starting a Solar Plant when you are two turns out from completing the research on Space Flight.

Of course this all presumes we have Aluminium or can buy it as needed.

The workers have been whacking jungle using the Gang of Five method. Five natives are sent to road the patch of jungle you choose. When the road is done then pile in all available workers to irrigate and rail and move the gang of five off somewhere else. It takes 17 or 22 mixed natives and slaves, I forget.

I built a couple three new towns just to fill some gaps in the map (Newt and Salamander being my favorites).

The use of airfields and flak to protect the air force are good ideas (which I did not implement) as it is true that the AI will pound a town to smithereens along with any bombers based there but will ignore bombers parked in an airfield right next to it. Having a couple four fighters handy to provide air cover both locally and for the bomber runs is also useful. The fighters will protect bombers over enemy territory. The kill percentages aren't real good but you will save some bombers from fighter losses that way, especially once the other guys has jets in the air.

Abe is the big loser in the wars right now as he is down to two villages in his offshore tax haven. While Shaka appears to be holding his own, though that may change now that X-man has his tanks and Mech Infantry.

We have spies in all nations except Amurrica as I didn't think it worth it and enough cash in the kitty to do a careful steal if we wish. I don't think anybody is putting much resource into science right now, though.

Some bozo sailed a privateer into the arm of the sea where the galleons live and sank two.....

Roster check:
gmaharriet - build us some parts, ma'am but don't hesitate to start WW3 if you think it will help
eotinb _ build us some more

 

[gmaharriet]

build us some parts, ma'am but don't hesitate to start WW3 if you think it will help

Got it! If we have aluminum (and later uranium), I don't see an immediate need for war. Hammi is giving us a nice income for the next 17 turns, and I'd like to renew the lux deals overseas, but I'll keep building military to keep Hammi from deciding to renege on the gpt agreement.

I've never used a spy or stolen a tech. If the opportunity comes up, I may be back with questions on just how to do it.

 

[gmaharriet]

I'll spare you my usual detailed turnlog as I was mostly building 2 and 3-turn military and clearing jungle and pollution. I did start a tiny navy in case of need...2 carriers and so far 1 cruiser with (I think) a couple more cruisers being built.

The highlights:

A privateer sinks our other galleon, but a Bab ironclad avenges us by sinking it.

The Americans are destroyed by Persia.

In 1480ad we renewed the spice and gem deal with Shaka for Motors, silks and incense.

Rocketry finished on schedule, Space Flight in 5 and we have 3 aluminum.

Babylon got SETI, so I used a mass transit as a pre-build for Apollo.

Space Flight came in, went to Big Picture and switched Sallie to Apollo Program. Apollo completed, went to Clever and started SS engine, to Scoutsville for docking bay, and to Bedeville to start cockpit. Docking Bay cames in. Fission in 5 at 100%.

Babylon and Persia signed an alliance against Shaka. Babs declared on Zulus. Babs requested an alliance against the Zulu and ROP from us. No, thank you!

The Cockpit completed in Bedeville.

It seems that the Babs have no coal or oil. They lost their coal right after the Americans were destroyed. The Zulu must have been selling them oil. I offered Hammi coal when I refused the alliance against the Zulus, but he said "no such deal can be made", even though he had plenty of gold and a tech to sell. It also appeared that some of the Bab units were dying or disappearing, so I'd say he's in trouble.

They all have cash, Persia and Zulus just as of my last turn if anyone wants to sell them something. We still have lots of gold. Pic of trading screen to follow.

 

[gmaharriet]

The Persians destroy the Americans.

The Babs and Persians sign an aggression pact against the Zulus.

Trade status at 1525 AD.

 

[General Mayhem]

A privateer sinks our other galleon, but a Bab ironclad avenges us by sinking it.

Why didn't they get moved into the inner lake or inside cities?

 

[eotinb]

Looking for the save...

 

[gmaharriet]

Oh, the save!!! I forgot the save. Ya really think ya need it? I even remembered to name it correctly...then forgot the important part.