TGOMTG Conquest Class Challenge (C3C)

[namliaM]

Got it (I am up right?) will try to play somewhere tomorrow....

I can see razing sumer it can be relocated and allow for 2 citys instead of just the 1, will that not make the AI upset with us?
In any case if we take it and the other 3 flip risk should be minimal anyway right?

Plans:
Take/Capture/Raze Erech, Isin, Sumer and Umma then peace (+techs + gold + citys?)

Grow some temples "back home" for the culture (no libs allowed?)
Once we have currency & have temples grow some Markets.

Fill gaps in former Sumerian lands eg, all the way North between and Umma we can fit a nice fishing town (no fish but lots of water) It will be 1 shield long time, but nice commerce with all water and harbor ?!

 

[Methos]

Grow some temples "back home" for the culture (no libs allowed?)

I don't know if libs are not allowed, but other than culture they are worthless since we cannot self-research. Plus libs are so much more expensive than temples. At least temples provide a little help in keeping the people happy.

So it sounds like you'll be continuing the war, burn down Isin, Erech, and Sumer and take Umma and that other city.

Go for it namliaM, see if you can finish this one.

 

[Bede]

No restriction on building libraries for the culture value, though the research value is nil. Temples are clearly the way to go for culture, though we will probably build libraries later (same culture as cathedrals, but cheaper to build and maintain).

Razing cities will upset the other guys for a while but they will get over it. By the time the UN vote comes up they will either have forgotten or be in our pocket anyway.

 

[namliaM]

Pre-turn:
Why are all the workers stacked? As specially N of Ur, roading?!
Switch builds:
Atlata Horse> Temple
Chicago Horse> Temple
Arrakis Cat> Temple
WDC Heros Epic> Temple (rush it later with a leader)
Lagash Cat> Harbor
NY Horse> Temple
Agade Worker>Courthouse

IT: Quel resistor in Kish
Archer from Isin Attacks our mounties on the mountain. Kills a horse.

1@260 4/4 Horse Attack 4/4 Enk in Isin, Defense shot hits, take 1 hp flee
4/4 Horse Attack 3/3 Enk in Isin, Kill enk, Lose 1 hp
4/4 Horse Attack 3/4 Enk in Isin, Horse dies, takes 2 hp
4/4 Horse Attack 1/4 Enk in Isin, Kill Enk, Promote Horse (5/5)
Only a 1/3 archer left

Minutemen Attack Umma
3/3 Enk Kill Enk, Lose 3 hp
3/3 Enk Kill Enk, Lose 1 hp
3/3 Enk take 1 hp, Army dies (losing 9! hp)
Attack 3/4 Enk in Umma with 4/4 Horse, Lose 3 hp flee (Gues its going to be a little harder than I thought)

On the "East coast" sumeriia is down to only Kisurra and I want some pointy stick research,
I sign peace with Sumeria for Republic, Currency, Monarchy, Sumer, Isin, Erech and 1 gold
Erech build Temple
Sumer build Temple
Isin build Temple

IT: Xerx (Persia) comes calling looking for an alliance against Sumeria. I just made peace... NO..
Phily Galley> Temple

2@270 I revolt! And draw 7 turns
To keep the Faith:
Tax + Clown in Arrakis @ -2f
Tax in SF @-1f
Ur to Temple (From cat)
3 clowns in WDC @ -4f
Tax + 2 clowns in NY
2 clowns in Boston @ -1f
Tax + Clown in Phily @ -1f
Tax + Clown in Atlanta @-2f
Clown in Chicago @ +1f
We are up by Currency to the Bablylons, but I cannot sell it to them (They have NOTHING at all)

IT: Agade Riots (hmmmm did i not check that?)

3@280 Hire 2 tax in Agade @ 0f
Currently @ +14gpt

IT: Zzzz

4@290 zzzz

IT: Agade riots again (??)
Sum Archer steps N of sumer
Persian archer appears SW-SW-S of WDC
Persians have taken Kisurra, Sums are a OCC now...

5@300 Ask Gil to withdraw his archer.
Move 2nd Spear into sumer just in case
Meet Korea, They lack Monarchy and have Feudalism, They are willing to pay 685 for Monarchy Try to meet other civ first
Change Tax in Agade to Clown

IT: Persian archer steps onto our turf, 3 horses and 2 archers appear near Atlanta

6@310 Ask persia to leave, "No problemo. We're outta here!" is their answer
No more risistance in Kish
Kill barb Galley (2/2) with Ours (3/3) lose 1 hp

IT: Lot more Persians show up and fiolate our ground
Greece & Germany sign peace

7@320 Demand persians leave, they DoW
5/5 Archer attack 3/3 Horse, take 2 hp Horse flee
4/4 Archer Attack 3/3 Horse, Kill Horse
4/4 Archer attack 3/3 Archer, lose 1 hp
4/4 Horse Attack 3/3 Horse, Lose 1 hp

As we are still in anarchy a full attack from Persia is deadly. Get Greece involved:
Alliance vs Persians, Alliance vs Babylonians (Both Greece and Persia between us and Babs) and we get 3 gold (there was no more)

IT: 1/3 Horse attack our 3/4 horse, Kill per horse lose 2hp promote (2/5)
3/3 Horse attack our 2/5 horse, our horse takes 1 hp but dies. Per horse is promoted (3/4).
3/3 Horse attacks twin archers, Shot hits, lose 1 hp kill horse
6 more archers S-S of Lagash
Starvation @ NY, 2 Taxmen

8@330 4/5 Archer attack 3/4 Horse, Lose 1 hp kill Horse
4/4 Archer attack 3/3 archer (twins), Shot misses, Kill archer
5/5 Horse Attack 3/3 Archer (other), lose 1 hp, Kill Archer

IT: Kish Riots(??) assign Tax @ 0f
Starvation @Arrakis
Starvation @Atlanta
Enter Republic

9@340 MM everything
Set Lux to 20
To my oppinion we need horses to fight Persia off.
Phily Temple>Horse
Chicago Temple>Horse
NY Temple> Horse
Boston Galley> Horse

All 6 Cats move out of WDC and shoot at 2 horses on the mountain S-SE of WDC, take 3 HP (2+1)
4/4 Archer Attack 2/3 horse, take 1 hp horse flee
4/4 Archer attack 1/3 Horse, Kill Horse
4/5 Horse Attack 3/3 Horse, Shot Hits, Kill horse
4/4 Archer attack 3/3 Horse, Shot Hits, Lose 2 more hp, kill Horse
4/4 Archer attack 3/3 Archer, Shot miss, Lose 3! hp, Kill Archer
4/4 Archer attack 3/3 Archer, Shot miss, Lose 2 hp, Kill Archer Promote (3/5)

Hmz, Lagash is in trouble... But... Help is on the way

IT:
all 4 Archers Attack Lagash. 3 die, taking hp off the warrior and promoting him.
Unfortunatly the elite Horse and Archer die too. One of the Pers Archers promotes
Anothor archer is killed in NY
NY Horse> Horse
Chicago Horse> Horse
Germans start Tzu's
Greeks start TGL

10@350
4/4 Horse attacks 5/5 Archer(s), shot hits, Take 1 hp Flee.
4/4 Horse attacks 4/4 Archer(s), Shot Miss, Lose 1 hp, Kill Archer
4/4 Horse attacks 4/4 Archer(s), Shot hits, take 1 hp, flee
4/4 Horse Attacks 4/5 Archer(s), Shot hits, Kill archer, Promote (4/5)
4/4 Horse Attacks 3/4 Archer(s), Shot miss, Kill Archer
4/4 Archer Attack 1/3 Horse, Lose 3 hp, kill horse

The intruding Persians:

Our lands: I changed Phily to a Barracks

The trade situation:

Korea is willing to buy Monarchy now for 564, to me that means either the other civ has it or they are researching it. I say SELL !!!!
OR Feudalism for Monarchy+11gpt+725g (not such a good idea?!) Fued tho is brokarable to Sum (who have Enginering) and Greece who have Mono. Germany has both
Greece will sell Mono for 784+4gpt
Sumeria will sell Enginering for 778

Seeing as germany has all 3 (and 1159 gold!!!!) they are not monopoly and I think we can make a nice little profit from the deals going around.
Bismark is charging crazy prices, ie 51 gpt+ 884 for feudalism

The Save

Due to the Lungle & march between us and Persia our cats cannot help us...

 

[Bede]

Rotten Persians. Kill a few and maybe they will go away peacefully.

 

[soul_warrior]

Korea is willing to buy Monarchy now for 564, to me that means either the other civ has it or they are researching it. I say SELL !!!!
OR Feudalism for Monarchy+11gpt+725g (not such a good idea?!) Fued tho is brokarable to Sum (who have Enginering) and Greece who have Mono. Germany has both
Greece will sell Mono for 784+4gpt
Sumeria will sell Enginering for 778

i say tak ethe deals.
greece and sum should land us 2 free techs.....

 

[Methos]

Got it, though I won't be able to play until Monday evening. I hope the site is up before I go into work so I'll be able to post it. We'll see.

Either way, we have until tomorrow evening to discuss it so give me as many ideas as possible. As namliaM stated our cats won't be any good due to the jungle or marsh so I guess use them as defense for our core.

Haven't looked at the save yet but are we at war with both Persia and Babylon? That sucks! Better look at the save.

 

[Methos]

Looked at the save and my first suggestion is we distribute the cats amongst our core cities. This way we can bombard any enemies as they come to our front door.

Noticed Sumeria has a couple of enks in our territory. Don’t tell me he’s planning on attacking us? Is the AI that stupid?

Just curious, how difficult would it be to use Chicago as a funnel of death? I’m not very familiar with the tactic but it sounds worth learning.

 

[namliaM]

Rotten Persians. Kill a few and maybe they will go away peacefully.

Allready did
The sums with their super human Enk are more painfull really, Killing our army (taking 9hp) and taking 3 hp of a horse

at war with both Persia and Babylon

Yes we are, I took an MA with Greece against Babylon to get them to join us against Persia and hopefully take some of the pain away.
Babylon is far away, it is more of a fony war that a real one. They have to hike across Greek (and get killed prob) or Persian lands for quite a bit....

Sumeria has a couple of enks

No, they dont have war on their mind (against us). I think they are hiking to persia, but keep an eye on them. I put spears in the 3 city's nearest the sumerian OCC to keep the sums from getting new towns too easy.

funnel of death?

What is that a FoD, the same as SoD? But then something different

While we are at war with Persia and will be for a while to honer our MA with greece. I would like to see both Sidon and Akshak anexxed, both for their luxes. Also we may be able to cut our way (or road our way) thru the jungle to Akshak to make a "jungle" bridge for our cats.
Also taking these 2 will allow us to start settling and cutting away at the jungle to complete the "closest" city ring -thus lower corruption, thus more $- from WDC.

Thoughts on sumer, Should we be investing in a Temple? Maybe build a worker or 2 there, then abandon it? I think instead of having sumer there, we can have 2 citys in that area (Bede? what do you think?)

Trades (order)
I am thinking, take the "lowest deal" first. Meaning no GPT.
That would mean Buying Engineering from Sumeria for 778g. Now we are nearly broke, but we can get Mono from greece or get Feud from Korea and get our money back. I will bet that Korea will lower their 725g part a lot in return for Enginering, maybe even dig into to GPT or leave only lump sum (can we ROP yet?)
We will be buying Fued at 3rd and selling at 3rd
Buying mono and Engenering at 3rd and possibly sell it to Korea at monopoly

IIRC sumeria does not yet know everyone on our continent... Check it This makes for better dealing if you know who knows who

My order (I think) would be
Sumeria (get Engineering)
Korea (Eng+Monarchy+Lump for Feud => Possibly Eng+Monarch for Feud+Lump/GPT)
Greece (Eng for Mono+GPT(Hopefully))
Return to Sumeria to get our money back (via Fued/Mono)

Leaving us with all tier 1, our own gold and some extra GPT probably. For after above trading we are still up on some of the AIs and we can possibly sell them techs for some nice GPT.
We may want to hold of on additional deals with Korea untill we can meet the last remaining civ on their continent.

 

[Methos]

What is that a FoD, the same as SoD? But then something different

If I recall correctly a funnel of death is when you leave a city undefended in an open area so that the enemy can move to take the city. Along the enemies path you have bombarding units stacked along several tiles with defenders and fast moving units. As the enemy approaches your undefended city you bombard their units than attack with your fast movement units so that they can end their turn back on the protected stack. I first read about this tactic in one of Sir Pleb’s games. I don’t believe we have the ability to set one up.

2@270 I revolt! And draw 7 turns

Just curious if when you get the tech during a trade if the pop-up asking if you wish to switch governments appears? If so that should have been when you revolted. The reason being is if you get a high amount of anarchy turns (as namliaM did) you can always reroll. I realize by namliaM’s writeup he revolted the following round but was curious how the trade affects the pop-ups.

With the MA we can’t get peace with Persia during my turnset at all. I believe Bede stated he wants us to have a golden reputation in this game.

Since no one ever rushed the temple in SF should I? I’m surprised it hasn’t been done already with such a high flip risk. It has thirteen turns left but should we wait?

I need to go to bed, but I’ll check when I wake up and before I start playing.

 

[namliaM]

I did not see/notice the popup, also i am not sure how to "re-role"

I felt we could not really take on Persia, so I wanted to pull in antoher.... So, no peace for the weary. Go get them tiger

"golden reputation" Yep as clean as a whistle, to be able to make GPT deals

Fliprisk: 1 temple does not make much of a difference, I guess you can rush it but we are in Republic now. It costs precious $
Before you do rush, check the trades.... We may just need every gold piece we have for them.

What are everyones thoughts on the trading?

 

[soul_warrior]

mailer, your deal list looks very nice

My order (I think) would be
Sumeria (get Engineering)
Korea (Eng+Monarchy+Lump for Feud => Possibly Eng+Monarch for Feud+Lump/GPT)
Greece (Eng for Mono+GPT(Hopefully))
Return to Sumeria to get our money back (via Fued/Mono)

i agree.

FoD, i dont think we have enough troops to set it up.

 

[Methos]

I'm not finished with my turnset but something came up I had a question on. On the IT between 8 and 9 I got this pop-up:

Since Greece broke our MA against Persia with them would we get a rep hit by signing peace with Persia now? Realize we are still at war with Babylon and have a MA against them with Greece too.

@namliaM: When you signed the MA with Greece were both alliances part of one deal? Or was it two seperate deals? I believe this may answer my question. If it was one deal signing peace with Persia should break everything, hence bad. If they were two seperate deals it won't hurt our rep.

As I said I'm not done playing but plan on waiting until these questions get answered before I continue. Either in the morning when I get home from work or when I wake up tomorrow afternoon. Sorry it's going to take longer but I don't want to screw up our rep. Plus with Persia fighting only us things could get very nasty.

Edit: 8 turns took two hours and fourty-five minutes and that's without diversions (TV was turned off and wife in the other room)! The IA and MA is going to suck!

BTW, during that IT Persia also signed peace with Sumeria.

 

[Bede]

On the peace treaty thing: once your ally makes peace you are free to do whatever you want. If the MA's were wrap arounds, in other words one included the other, once the peace treaty is signed with one common enemy the alliance is broken against the other even if the ally remains at war. Conclusion, you are free to make a peace treaty with Persia anytime you want. If the alliance against Babylon was part of the alliance with Greece against Persia, you are also free to make a peace treaty with Babylon. If you have any concerns just check the F4 screen info which will show active alliances.

I don't have any comment to make on the trading plan as you guys have it pretty well handled. You are thinking along the correct lines.

 

[Bede]

Just curious if when you get the tech during a trade if the pop-up asking if you wish to switch governments appears? If so that should have been when you revolted. The reason being is if you get a high amount of anarchy turns (as namliaM did) you can always reroll. I realize by namliaM’s writeup he revolted the following round but was curious how the trade affects the pop-ups.

The reroll on the anarchy turns is a technique which may work in PTW (never tried it so I don't know). What I do know is that it doesn't work in C3C. The game mechanics were altered. It may appear that you get a one turn reduction but that is illusory because when the mechanics changed it changed the timing. So that dog won't hunt in this pack.

 

[namliaM]

All that MA was part of 1 deal, the only way I could draw Greece into the fight....

But if Greece breaks the deal its broken (as Bede said). So go ahead and make peace... But if you can (or maybe you have allready) get them 2 lux towns & possibly get something out of the peace lump/gpt or a tech would be very nice....

You can check current alliances in the diplomacy screen (I forget the F. button), the screen with the heads. Click our head and you can see the lines for all alliances/rops etc. we have.

 

[Methos]

Next question than, do we want peace? Currently we are at war with Babylon and Persia. Greece is at war with only Babylon but it shouldn't last much longer. Sumeria is at peace with everyone as well. Persia is willing to give two of it's former Sumerian cities in the deal (the southern ones) and what little gold they have (something like 11 gold). Babylon is willing to do peace only if we give them Monotheism.

BTW everyone needs to remember that Babylon is the only ones with Iron on our continent, and they do have swordsman. Also, Greece is steadily shrinking.

Basically I guess does Bede wish to do a little fighting?

Sorry namliaM, we had Akshak for a little while but couldn't hold it. Our two archers couldn't stand up versus Persia's seven archers and a spear so I burned it to the ground and headed towards safer ground.

Oh yeah, met the Ottomans.

I'll finish it tonight.

 

[namliaM]

I am wondering how you did the trading....Trading Eng/Feud and Mono around and selling monarchy I got all 3 techs and scored 781g for the kitty.

About peace.... on my end-turn there was Iron available near Persian lands (way down south tho).
I am surprised they have not yet hocked it up (claimed it) we would be facing them darn immortals...

We will need to cut down babylon, they will have had their GA allready. But i do not like to be facing a big babylon with them building knights and us walking around with horses and archers

We will have to "go get" us some Iron, one way or the other.... (Persia or Babylon)
Seeing as Babylon is bigger/badder and allready has the Iron hooked up, might as well be persia.
On the other hand, Persia wants peace. Fighting 2 wars at the same time is not good either.

Maybe get peace with Persia, then get a bite out of Babylon and when they want peace... Go back to Persia...

 

[soul_warrior]

i say keep at persia,s throat.
babylon is IMO too big right now for us to tackle.

 

[Methos]

Let me finish these two turns. I'll go ahead and sign peace with Babylon and leave Persia for Bede.